Thread: businesswoman - feminine forms of nouns

Hey,
Цhat word is most commonly used of the following:
бизнесменка, коммерсантка, женщина-бизнесмен, деловая женшина

Aslo, is it offensive for women if you refer to them using the masculine form? And why is it that I often hear women referred to using the masculine form even though a feminine form exists - eg they called a girl an артист instead of an артистка.

большое спасибо

I think the most common is деловая женшина

Well since you often hear women referred to using the masculine form even though a feminine form exists is it not at all offensive for women if you refer to them using the masculine form (well some can be offended maybe(деловые женщины например)...those who read about that feministic movements and took it too seriously but that's one to a million I believe)

Originally Posted by basurero

Hey,
Цhat word is most commonly used of the following:
бизнесменка, коммерсантка, женщина-бизнесмен, деловая женшина

Aslo, is it offensive for women if you refer to them using the masculine form? And why is it that I often hear women referred to using the masculine form even though a feminine form exists - eg they called a girl an артист instead of an артистка.

большое спасибо

Well, in Deutsch they just add "-in" to form a feminine profession name. In Russian it's not that easy. For traditional profession names there usually exist both masculine and feminine variant (but not always, for an instance "врач").
For traditionally masculine professions, the masculine variant is considered "primary", so when there is no intent to emphasize the sex of the person, the masculine variant is often used regardless of the real sex.
Кто ваша жена по профессии? Она артист.
Кто эта девушка по профессии? Она художник.
Кто она по профессии? Она спортсмен.
But using the feminine variant in this case is also correct.
However for traditionally feminine professions, feminine variant (which is primary in this case) is virtually never used when the person is a man. Feminine variant can be used only if there is no known masculine variant.
Кто он по профессии? Он медбрат (not медсестра).
Кто этот человек по профессии? Он дояр (not доярка).
Кем работает Ходорковский? Он работает швеей-мотористкой (no masculine variant).
For many profession names (mostly new ones which come from English) there is no feminine variant at all. Бизнесмен is one instance.
Моя жена - бизнесмен.
(this word doesn't break into "business" and "man" in Russian, so "man" here is irrelevant).
Деловая женщина is more a lifestyle description than a profession.

For many professions existing feminine forms are considered utterly illiterate.
Ex.
Она - библиотекарь. (not библиотекарша)
Она работает директором (not директоршой)
etc

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Она работает директором (not директоршой)

We called ours директриса :)

Кто ваша жена по профессии? Она артист.

Never heard that; " она артистка" sounds far more natural

Originally Posted by net surfer

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Она работает директором (not директоршой)

We called ours директриса

Right.

So do you still use the masculine declensions of adjectives even if it's a girl?

Я только что увидел красивого бизнесмена?
or
Я только что увидел красивую бизнесмена?

Originally Posted by basurero

So do you still use the masculine declensions of adjectives even if it's a girl?

Я только что увидел красивого бизнесмена?
or
Я только что увидел красивую бизнесмена?

... красивую бизнесменку (I don't know if it's colloquial or not)

OK I will continue the question for basurero, since it is valid:

Красивая врач or красивый врач
when врач is a woman.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

OK I will continue the question for basurero, since it is valid:

Красивая врач or красивый врач
when врач is a woman.

Красивая женщина-врач.

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

OK :) I will continue the question for basurero, since it is valid:

Красивая врач or красивый врач
when врач is a woman.

I remember we discussed that not a long time age but I can't find the thread.

[quote=net surfer]

Originally Posted by "kalinka_vinnie":38uxyvg0

OK I will continue the question for basurero, since it is valid:

Красивая врач or красивый врач
when врач is a woman.

I remember we discussed that not a long time age but I can't find the thread.[/quote:38uxyvg0]

I'm not authority on the subject, but since you would say мой умный дядя, wouldn't it logically extend to women as well -- красивая врач?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

OK I will continue the question for basurero, since it is valid:

Красивая врач or красивый врач
when врач is a woman.

May I ask how often you say "beautiful doctor"? Beauty isn't a characteristic of doctors, if you understand me. In other words no one cares if a doctor beautiful or not, if he/she is interested in his/her doctor skills only. Therefore, it's better to say simply "Она красивая женщина", or, if you want to emphasis that she is a doctor, "Она врач и красивая женщина". The phrases "красивый врач" and especially "Красивая врач" sound weird for me.

Originally Posted by pranki

May I ask how often you say "beautiful doctor"? Beauty isn't a characteristic of doctors, if you understand me. I

Of course you don't use it very often -- but that's not really the overarching point -- it's simply a common adjective that most people know and I suspect it was chosen for that reason. There may not be many times when you speak of "beautiful doctor babes," but what about intelligent/qualified/talented/ any number of other things?

Originally Posted by pranki

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

OK I will continue the question for basurero, since it is valid:

Красивая врач or красивый врач
when врач is a woman.

May I ask how often you say "beautiful doctor"? Beauty isn't a characteristic of doctors, if you understand me. In other words no one cares if a doctor beautiful or not, if he/she is interested in his/her doctor skills only. Therefore, it's better to say simply "Она красивая женщина", or, if you want to emphasis that she is a doctor, "Она врач и красивая женщина". The phrases "красивый врач" and especially "Красивая врач" sound weird for me.

Fine, drop красивый. Let's take хороший. If the doctor is a woman, how would you say it?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Fine, drop красивый. Let's take хороший. If the doctor is a woman, how would you say it?

Let's switch on the same logic In that case хороший is a characteristic of a doctor, not woman. So it's natural to say "Она -- хороший врач".

Aha! Now we are on the same page! You answered the question!

Thanks!

Она клёвая врачиха.... вот так надо говорить

You know when you put 2 words together like женщина-врач how do you know which noun to put first? Is there a rule?