Thread: ребёнка / дети

Platinum, are you going just to remember all the forms of all the new Russian words without knowing the rules of their changing ('how it works') and intense practice? Then you're a brave person.
I'm afraid I'm not good enough at English to explain such peculiarities of the language but I would like to help you next time (giving examples etc.) if I can.
Unfortunately we can't learn languages as quickly and easily as children anymore. And what of no small importance they assimilate information otherwise.

Originally Posted by Zaya

Platinum, are you going just to remember all the forms of all the new Russian words without knowing the rules of their changing ('how it works') and intense practice? Then you're a brave person.
I'm afraid I'm not good enough at English to explain such peculiarities of the language but I would like to help you next time (giving examples etc.) if I can.
Unfortunately we can't learn languages as quickly and easily as children anymore. And what of no small importance they assimilate information otherwise.

Did you mean "accumulate"? Yes, they accumulate knowledge by adsorbing it.

Yes, they accumulate knowledge by adsorbing it.

Exactly.

О, меня исправляют.) Спасибо.)
Well, I tried to choose the word that goes with 'information' because I didn't know any appropriate collocations and found this sentence in my dictionary:
to assimilate
1 [transitive]
to completely understand and begin to use new ideas, information etc [= absorb]

Does it sound oddly?

Practically, I tried to translate "воспринимают информацию по-другому" and I meant both adults and children so I couldn't use 'absorb' (впитывают)).

And what of no small importance they assimilate information otherwise.

"Assimilate" is fine in that context (in the meaning: to absorb information), but the sentence itself isn't grammatically correct.

Originally Posted by shadow1

Notice when you count things in English, you say
one CHILD
two CHILDREN

Well Russian sorta kinda works like that.

one child = один ребёнок
two children = два ребёнка
three children = три ребёнка
four children = четыре ребёнка
five children = пять детей
six children = шесть детей
...

Notice the word ребёнок changes to ребёнка just like "child" changes to "children" when going from one to two.
But in Russian, ребёнка changes to детей when you go from "four" to "five"

а также

двое детей
трое детей
четверо детей

"жена и трое детей", например

Could somebody correct all the mistakes in my English messages?

Originally Posted by Zaya

Platinum, are you just going to remember all the forms of all the new Russian words without knowing the rules of their changing [conjugation] ('how it works') and intense practice? Then you're a brave person.
I'm afraid I'm not good enough at English to explain such peculiarities of the language, but I would like to help you next time (giving examples etc.) if I can.
Unfortunately we can't learn languages as quickly and easily as children anymore. And, something of no small importance, they absorb information in a different way than we do.

I think you are pretty good in English, better than Peter the Great! That is quite a comparison!

Thank you, kalinka_vinnie!

their changing [conjugation] ('how it works')

I meant conjugation and declension (всё вместе).

Originally Posted by Lampada

Originally Posted by Zaya

Platinum, are you going just to remember all the forms of all the new Russian words without knowing the rules of their changing ('how it works') and intense practice? Then you're a brave person.
I'm afraid I'm not good enough at English to explain such peculiarities of the language but I would like to help you next time (giving examples etc.) if I can.
Unfortunately we can't learn languages as quickly and easily as children anymore. And what of no small importance they assimilate information otherwise.

Did you mean "accumulate"? Yes, they accumulate knowledge by adsorbing it.

Also, it should be "absorbing". To ABsorb means to soak within. ADsorb means to cling to the surface. Sorry, I'm a chemist.

Thanks for your comments. Before, I thought I might actually have a chance to be successful with Russian. I thought that with this software i might actually learn. But you all have convinced me that I'll get nowhere without learning the thing I dispise most...grammar!

Well, I'm not giving up, but I'm no longer optimistic. I'll be back with more questions later....if you all are willing.

This is why Pimsleur is rubbish. Grammar is necessary!

Originally Posted by Platinum

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Mind of a child differs from one of the adult. And to achieve this near-perfectness she spent every moment of her life actively learning English and hearing English everywhere.
Are you going to give up at least 6 years of your life exclusively to Russian?
Anyway, good luck.

You all make good points. Perhaps I will rethink my plan. At the moment, I just started Rosetta Stone and I'm going through Pimsleur for the second time. I guess my problem is that when I'm using a textbook I get so overwhelmed with the technical jargon, I find that I'm getting frustrated and give up. And many times the vocab lists are too long to retain many of the words.

As I said before, perhaps I will get out my old Penguin book and trudge my way through while I'm using the multi-media things. Thanks everybody for your help and advise...I'm sure I'll have many more questions.

Yes, use Penguin, it's the best. With Russian, you are not going to make serious progress without sitting down for some hardcore grammar sessions.

Originally Posted by Platinum

Originally Posted by DDT

It sounds like you have had all the resources at hand to learn with. I think it is time to open the New Penguin book.

Well, it seems to get very high marks here at MR. I suppose it must be a good book.

Not just here. Check the reviews at Amazon.

Originally Posted by TATY

This is why Pimsleur is rubbish. Grammar is necessary!

It is not rubbish. It is still a valuable tool for learning. Anyone who used Pimsleur before starting Russian in University was miles ahead of those who didn't. And those who didn't use it had the worst pronunciation in class ever. They were unbearable. I have heard speak, third year Russian students that had never listened to a CD that sounded like they were speaking complete babble, even though they knew all the right words.

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by TATY

This is why Pimsleur is rubbish. Grammar is necessary!

It is not rubbish. It is still a valuable tool for learning. Anyone who used Pimsleur before starting Russian in University was miles ahead of those who didn't. And those who didn't use it had the worst pronunciation in class ever. They were unbearable. I have heard speak, third year Russian students that had never listened to a CD that sounded like they were speaking complete babble, even though they knew all the right words.

I strongly agree. Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone are great (altough VERY expensive). The words and phrases I learn from both methods are solid. I will certainly never forget them. But I am now starting to see that it will only take me so far. I will need more to be able to figure out how to say things outside of their vocabulary lists. It seems to me that a person should use as many sources as possible.

If you come to a spot where you don't know the grammar, you can sometimes figure it out logically....

В школе заболела преподавательница русского языка и поставили на замену математика (М).
Ну, значит, приходит он на урок к ученикам (У).
М: Какая тема последнего задания?
У: Падежи.
М: Повторяем падежи:
Именительный: кто, что.
Родительный: кого, чего.
Дательный: кому, ...?
(пишет на доске)
кто/что
кого/чего
кому/?
М: А дальше кто знает?
У: Не помним (прикалываются).
М: Тогда выведем.
Пусть неизвестное слово Х, тогда:
кто/что
кого/чего
кому/Х
составляем пропорцию:
кого/чего = кому/Х
(го) сокращается, получаем:
ко/че = кому/Х
аналогично сокращаем (ко), получаем:
1/че = му/Х
Переумножим:
1 * Х = че * му
Получаем:
Х = чему
У: ...???...!!!...

=:^)

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by TATY

This is why Pimsleur is rubbish. Grammar is necessary!

It is not rubbish. It is still a valuable tool for learning. Anyone who used Pimsleur before starting Russian in University was miles ahead of those who didn't. And those who didn't use it had the worst pronunciation in class ever. They were unbearable. I have heard speak, third year Russian students that had never listened to a CD that sounded like they were speaking complete babble, even though they knew all the right words.

I used the Penguin course to the end before uni, and even after into the second year I knew all the grammar they were teaching me. I know the problem of bad pronuncation. At our uni there are 4th year (final) students who can't be uderstood by Russians due to they abismal pronuncation.

Originally Posted by TATY

I know the problem of bad pronuncation. At our uni there are 4th year (final) students who can't be uderstood by Russians due to they abismal pronuncation.

Don't they teach you correct pronouncation at the university? I think that's the first thing the course usually begins with...

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Originally Posted by TATY

I know the problem of bad pronuncation. At our uni there are 4th year (final) students who can't be uderstood by Russians due to they abismal pronuncation.

Don't they teach you correct pronouncation at the university? I think that's the first thing the course usually begins with...

Yes, of course we are taught how to pronounce Russian correctly but it's not that simple. It takes a long time to get good pronuncation, teachers can't spend the whole course trying to get people to pronounce things properly. Some people just never learn as well.

Teachers have to strike a balance between over-correcting students and under-correcting students. By that I mean, if a teacher corrects every little mistake the student makes, and at the beginner's level that's a lot, then the student will become demoralised, and also it would just take too much time. But if the teacher doesn't correc the student enough, then the student won't learn correct pronunciation. I find most teachers don't correct students enough.

Some students, no matter how many times they are corrected just don't learn, and don't pronounce things properly.

Like lesson 1 or 2 of any Russian course at univeristy, students are taught that an unstressed O is not pronounced O, but like a weak A sound. This will be repeated numerous times throughout the years of study but many students still pronounce an unstressed O as O.

For example, there are people on my course, who started studying at uni in 2004, have just spent a whole year in Russia, have been taught a million times that an unstressed O is not pronounced O, have heard it a billion times in Russia, but still will say "moloko".

Thanks, TATY. I agree. The balance between over-correcting students and under-correcting is hard to achieve. While nowadays it's common to correct students as rare as possible to not to discourage them, back in the USSR there was tendency to overcorrect.

At first years of English classes (7-8 y/o kids) we literally couldn't say a phrase without being interrupted half a dozen times by a teacher. It's probably not the best way, but I must say that knowledge sticks.

Especially when the corrections were made in our teacher unique manner: "What's the matter with you, people! Ivanov is the only one who's pronounced "there are" right. "R", don't forget "r-r-r"!!! *everybody stares at Ivanov darkly* )

PS. И кто-нибудь, исправляйте же мои ошибки!