Thread: В следующем месяце мы собираемся навестить своих друзей!

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Two comments about English "I am going to [do so-and-so]":


Also consider the example "Try some of this 'baklazhannaya ikra' -- it may look strange, but I'll bet you're going to love the taste!!" Here, the sense of "planning/intending" (ты собирается любить эту икру) isn't even possible; "you're going to love it" can only be a simple future construction signifying "you will love it".

Не "Ты собирается (собираешься) любить", а "Она тебе очень понравится". Ни "собираться", ни "любить" здесь никак не подходят.

Originally Posted by Marcus

Не "Ты собирается (собираешься) любить", а "Она тебе очень понравится". Ни "собираться", ни "любить" здесь никак не подходят.

A good point! Yes, we should add that "собираться" always necessarily assumes some conscious, deliberate intention to perform an action.
It is imposible to use "собираться" with the verbs describig actions out of our control: one cannot "собираться любить" (to love), "собираться заболеть" (to fall ill), "собираться захотеть" (to want), "собираться поскользнуться" (to slip) etc.

And that's also impossible to apply this verb for inanimate subjects: you cannot say "Фильм собирается начаться" (The movie is going to start), you rather say "Фильм сейчас начнётся" (The movie will start right now).

There are very few exceptions to this: "собираться" can be used for some weather conditions, mostly for rain: "Дождь собирается" (It's going to rain), but I think the meaning here is slightly different.

We do say "я собираюсь заболеть" in a colloquial speech

Лучше "наших" и желательно добавить, где это будет.
...мы собираемся навестить наших друзей в Москве.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

We do say "я собираюсь заболеть" in a colloquial speech

Really? In what context? It's hard to imagine it without a wider example...

Thank you Throbert and CoffeeCup,

Il'f and Petrov use the imperfective imperative in 12 Chairs...

"...
-- Посмотрите,-- сказал голос,-- полюбуйтесь на вашу
работу!
-- Сейчас вытурят! -- шепнул Остап Ипполиту Матвеевичу.
И точно, на верхнюю палубу, как ястреб, вылетел толстячок.
-- Ну, как транспарантик? -нахально спросил Ос-
тап.-- Доходит?
-- Собирайте вещи! -- закричал завхоз.
-- К чему такая спешка?
-- Со-би-рай-те вещи! Вон! Вы под суд пойдете!
Наш начальник не любит шутить!
-- Гоните его! -- донесся снизу ответственный голос.
-- Нет, серьезно, вам не нравится транспарант? Это, в
самом деле, неважный транспарант?
Продолжать игру не имело смысла. "Скрябин" уже пристал к
Васюкам, и с парохода можно было видеть ошеломленные лица
васюкинцев, столпившихся на пристани."

Little do the васюкинцы realize what they are in for.

Собирайте вещи! -- закричал завхоз.

That's how we normally say in this situation.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

It is impossible to use "собираться" with the verbs describing actions out of our control: one cannot "собираться любить" (to love), "собираться заболеть" (to fall ill), "собираться захотеть" (to want), "собираться поскользнуться" (to slip) etc.

And that's also impossible to apply this verb for inanimate subjects: you cannot say "Фильм собирается начаться" (The movie is going to start), you rather say "Фильм сейчас начнётся" (The movie will start right now).

Thanks for that explanation, Боб! In English, "going to" is possible in every example you gave, but in such cases it expresses a предсказание (prediction) about something that will happen in the future, rather than a conscious plan/intention:

"In about 5 billion years, the Sun is going to expand and completely swallow the Earth."
"Run for your lives -- the dam is gonna break!"
"Oh, Jesus, amannah puke -- I shouldn't have followed beer with vodka..."

I would assume that in Russian, a construction with собираться is impossible in all these cases -- in the first two sentences, because there's no conscious agent as the subject; in the third one because vomiting is usually not a matter of free will.

ЗЫ Although in the case of bulemic supermodels who throw up on purpose, I would guess it's possible to say "Я собираюсь вызвать рвоту" (lit., "I'm preparing to induce vomiting") or something like that? However, in the context of a person who's seasick or drunk, AFAIK you would normally use an impersonal verb in the 3rd-person-singular with the "logical subject" in the accusative: Господи, меня/её/нас сейчас вырвет -- принести ведро, скорее! ("Ohmygod, I'm/she's/we're about to throw up -- quick, bring a bucket!")

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I would assume that in Russian, a construction with собираться is impossible in all these cases -- in the first two sentences, because there's no conscious agent as the subject; in the third one because vomiting is usually not a matter of free will.

That's right. But I like to elaborate on that. It is not exactly impossible in all these cases, but unusual and adds new senses. The good formulation was cited by Боб Уайтман : собираться= "to mobilize one's inner resources prior to doing something". "Я собираюсь заболеть" is quite common though colloquial phrase nowadays. It means actually that I consciously plan a period of sickness in my life. "Дамба собирается рухнуть" is also possible but has a metaphorical sense, like if the dam is something animate and conscious.

If there is no infinitive after "собираться", it has other but related meanings: a) to get together b)to get one's things together.

"Я собираюсь заболеть", - так говорят, когда появляются первые симптомы простуды.
"Я собираюсь вызвать рвоту", "Меня сейчас вырвет" - именно так, и никак иначе.

Wow! throw up, vomit, puke - all mean the same?! Это что же получается: я выучил 3 новых слова! или всё-таки одно?

Originally Posted by ShakeyX

I am struggling to work out the cases of this sentence and wondered if anyone could help.

[В следующем месяце] - I assume месяце is in the prepositional due to В and this causes the adjective "next" to form the female prepositional.

I think it's important to point out that месяце isn't in accusative just because of в. Time expressions in Russian follow certain rules (to which, of course, there are exceptions ).

* Less than a week = в + accusative
* A week = на + prepositional
* Longer than a week = в + prepositional (which is what applies here)
* Seasons and parts of the day (утро, день, вечер, ночь, зима, лето, весна, осень) will take instrumental (e.g. вчера вечером).

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Wow! throw up, vomit, puke - all mean the same?! Это что же получается: я выучил 3 новых слова! или всё-таки одно?

Yep.

There's some slight particulars to usage, though. All three of them serve as nouns in speech (there's vomit on the floor, there's puke on the floor, there's throw up on the floor (sounds weird but you may hear it)) or verbs (He threw up, he vomited, he puked) but you're more likely to hear or see vomit/puke as nouns and throw up/puke as verbs (he vomited isn't very common to hear, but you may read it in books or news). Puke is more colloquial as either noun or verb (but can be used as both) and you're less likely to read it in any kind of formal setting.

And just so you can learn one more: "barf" can serve as either noun or verb, but it's also very colloquial (he barfed all over the place, there's barf everywhere).

There's also 'retch' and 'heave', which can only be used as verbs (he was retching/heaving), but they don't exactly mean блевать. I think the closer word is тужиться, which (if I recall correctly) is what you do after drinking all night on an empty stomach.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

"Я собираюсь заболеть", - так говорят, когда появляются первые симптомы простуды.

I doubt if I have ever heard this expression.
Когда появляются первые симптомы простуды, я бы сказал:
"Я заболеваю", "Кажется, я вот-вот заболею", "Как бы мне не заболеть", "По-моему, я простыл" и т.д.
Но если бы я услышал от кого-то "Я собираюсь заболеть", я бы подумал, что:
1) Человек умышленно хочет заболеть, чтобы получить больничный, дабы не ходить на работу/в школу/в универ и т.д.
2) Или же эта фраза употреблена с иронией. - Подобно тому, как если бы кто-то сказал, например: "Мой телевизор надумал-таки сломаться".
Как носитель русского языка, могу сказать: в других контекстах я бы такое выражение не воспринял.

А вы хотите сказать, что выражение "Я собираюсь заболеть" может быть употреблено без оттенка "умысла" и без намёка на иронию? Серьёзно?

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

"Я собираюсь вызвать рвоту", "Меня сейчас вырвет" - именно так, и никак иначе.

Agree. But the first one ("Я собираюсь вызвать рвоту") can only be used if you want to do it intentionally.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

"Oh, Jesus, amannah puke -- I shouldn't have followed beer with vodka..."

Hmmm... I just wanted to write that there were no "going to" in this example.
It took me a while until I recognised what "amannah" actually means (thanks to your previous explanation)
If not knowing that, I would suppose it's a sort of some Biblic expression like Halliluyah etc. That's what makes the native speech hard to understand for foreigners sometimes!

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

ЗЫ Although in the case of bulemic supermodels who throw up on purpose, I would guess it's possible to say "Я собираюсь вызвать рвоту" (lit., "I'm preparing to induce vomiting") or something like that? However, in the context of a person who's seasick or drunk, AFAIK you would normally use an impersonal verb in the 3rd-person-singular with the "logical subject" in the accusative: Господи, меня/её/нас сейчас вырвет -- принести ведро, скорее! ("Ohmygod, I'm/she's/we're about to throw up -- quick, bring a bucket!")

I agree!

Some of these 'have to' or 'got to' things might use the прийтись/приходиться type impersonal construction.

There are a lot of these colloquial expressions for vomiting. Loosing one's lunch, woof one's cookies, blowing chunks, all kinds of things.

Originally Posted by Seraph

Some of these 'have to' or 'got to' things might use the прийтись/приходиться type impersonal construction.

There are a lot of these colloquial expressions for vomiting. Loosing one's lunch, woof one's cookies, blowing chunks, all kinds of things.

And one of my favorites: "To make a call on the white porcelain phone." (позвонить по белому фарфоровому телефону) -- meaning, specifically, to throw up in a toilet. (Especially if you're kneeling by the toilet for a long time, resting your head on it like a pillow, waiting to vomit again...)

And "vomit," by the way, is the formal word that a doctor would normally use. "Throw up" is colloquial, but polite. The other terms are a bit rude and sound a little disgusting. (For which reason they're often heard in youth slang!)

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Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

And one of my favorites: "To make a call on the white porcelain phone." (позвонить по белому фарфоровому телефону) -- meaning, specifically, to throw up in a toilet. (Especially if you're kneeling by the toilet for a long time, resting your head on it like a pillow, waiting to vomit again...)

And "vomit," by the way, is the formal word that a doctor would normally use. "Throw up" is colloquial, but polite. The other terms are a bit rude and sound a little disgusting. (For which reason they're often heard in youth slang!)

Maybe it's an east-west coast difference, but I always heard it as "kneel (or "make homage") to the porcelain throne")

Originally Posted by Doomer

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Ихтиандр — Википедия

Боб Уайтман,
Какая ирония в том, что телевизор собирается сломаться? С заболеванием - в точности такой же оборот речи.
Это просто "не совсем правильный" способ выражаться.
Так, конечно, лучше:

Когда появляются первые симптомы простуды, я бы сказал:
"Я заболеваю", "Кажется, я вот-вот заболею", "Как бы мне не заболеть", "По-моему, я простыл" и т.д.

Но люди любят поизвращаться.

zxc,
thanks for detailed explanation. How interesting the topic swerved from "друзей" to "vomit"

BTW, 'тужиться' is not proper word. May be, "меня блевать/рвать тянет". Difficult to say