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I've written a fairly silly short story (about 1000 words long); attached version in Russian only. If anyone would like to, please read it and let me know if it makes sense, or if anything is just wrong/nonsense. If this is not a good place to post this, or if anyone knows anywhere else I could post it for more feedback, please let me know. Thanks!
for some reason there are mistakes in the file, I may have attached the unchecked one... better one attached now...
Молчание Кроликов.
- Мама, хочу чебурашку! -
Был вторник: день варенья, яиц, хлеба... словом, день покупок. Маша и сын её, Саша, ходили пешком за покупками, а сейчас сынок устал.
- Мама, хочу чебурашку своего! - ("своего чебурашку" is better; or use comma like "чебурашку, своего")
- В мире нет чебурашек, Сашенка, как ты знаешь. Они мифические животные.
- А по телевизору есть... -
-Да, сынок, а по телевизору показывают всё ("всякое" would be better - говорят всякое, пишут всякое - common sceptical phrase), но не всё есть в реальности. -
Как-то удивленно смотря на свои кроссовки, которые шли внизу, Саша думал об этом.
-Может быть, купи мне маленького зайчика, который умеет говорить! -
Вздохнув, Маша, сама устала от желаний сына (мечта - generally is one\single, though "мечты" is eligible) и от его постоянного болтания, разрешила наконец.
- Да, хорошо, если ты так настаиваешь. Ну, послушай, если уж в первом магазине, в которые мы зайдём, есть такой кролик, я тебе его куплю. Но если нет, я никогда не хочу снова слышать об этом! Конец разговора, договорились? - (Разговор окончен - alternative, more common sentence)
- В первом магазине? -
- Да, только в первом. -
Он подумал и ответил:
- Да, пойдём! -
Тут Маша повернулась налево, зашла в ближайший магазин, и за ней последовал Саша, смеющийся: Над дверью, надпись "Мир животных"...
В то время там (there) находилась молодая продавщица Алина; в узком месте. (в переплёте?) в узком проходе
Кажется, при попытке найти свои очки под прилавком, её упитанное туловище застряло, и вот теперь, она там оставалась.
Прозвенел дверной звонок; зашла пара, одна пара с детским голосом?
«Да нет! Покупатели! Нет, это руководитель и дочь. Какой ужас!»
Саша увидел вокруг себя: налево, шумные птицы, молчанне (?) и млекопитающих (молчание млекопитающих). А там, между вверх ногами (?) кот и несколько занятых мышей, стоял в клетке серенький, довольный зайчик; одно ухо вверх, другое вниз. А внизу, под прилавком, Алина была невидима.
- Мама! Этот зайчик мой! -
Маша смотрела на своего нежеланного, проклятого зверя. Несколько моменты прошли, и она обратилась к ему:
- Ну, вообще умеешь ли говорить? Что случилось? -
Алина, услышав голос руководителя, ответила:
-Какой ужас! Я в ловушке! -
Пара вытаращили глаза в шоке!
-Что это здесь? Это не может быть! Ты в порядке? - сказала Маша, с опасением.
-Нет, помогите мне! Вытащите меня, скоро возврашается владелец, нельзя чтобы он меня нашёл здесь во второй раз! (common expression \ threat "пусть это будет в первый и последний раз") - Умолял маленький голос.
- Да, конечно! - вскрикнул Саша, и к Маше:
- Возьмите его на руки, сразу! -
Ещё не придя в себя, Маша просто сделала это; оба посмотрели друг на друга, и убежали.
. . .
I guess someone should continue.
Your writing is pretty well, where are you from?
Thanks Serge_spb!
I'm from England. There are way more mistakes in there than I thought, mostly simple ones.
Кажется, при попытке найти свои очки под прилавком
My original should have been :
Кажется, при попытке найти её очки под прилавком
So it is permissible to use 'свои' here rather than 'её', even though the girl was only once mentioned in the previous paragraph? That's interesting, I thought that you could only use свой etc when the person has been mentioned in a previous clause. It makes sense though, as its obvious that this is the person being referred to.
шумные птицы not птиц? I thought because they are animate.
молчанне (?) и млекопитающих was supposed to read 'silence, and mammals' I was trying to be clever I suppose...
вверх ногами кот (?) upside down. My cat sleeps like like that.
Thanks for reading that, I'm glad that most of it seems to make sense.
There is no need to mention anything to use свой. Свой only means that an action taker affects something of their own. To clarify that maze of a sentence:Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
Она ищет свои очки - She's looking for her (own) glasses.
Она ищет её очки - She's looking for some other girl's glasses.
Он любит свою жену - He loves his wife
Он любит его жену - He loves other man's wife
This is what свой is all about.
:D That gives me a funny picture of your cat sleeping on his head with its rear legs up, I mean the Russian phrase. I guess you meant на спине with all its 4 legs up.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
Ходили is for a routine action that happened a lot of times in the past. Like a habit. We have an ongoing action in the past there, therefore it must be "шли" instead. Also the sentence is worded badly, sorry. You have connected шли за покупками and а сынок устал very strangely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge_spb
Маша и её сын Саша шли (пешком - redundant really) за покупками, и тут (then) Саша устал. Сейчас and past tense doesn't work well together, generally.
This is very very weird. Кроссовки are a thing, they don't go on their own :) I suggest:Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge_spb
Как-то удивленно смотря в пол на свои кроссовки, Саша думал об этом.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge_spb
Саша посмотрел вокруг/по сторонам, Саша осмотрелся - увидеть вокруг себя is very weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
Саша посмотрел вокруг. Слева - шумные птицы, тишина и млекопитающие. Still a little strange as млекопитающие doesn't fit in that list really, IMO.
Grammatically - несколько мометов. But we don't really use момент in such cases as British do. I suggest you substitite it with секунд - несколько секунд... Ему must be нему there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge_spb
A few notes: I kind of don't really grasp all of the story. You have 3 people in it. Mom - Masha, her son - Sasha, saleswoman - Alina. Right? Saleswoman seems to think that the pair, Masha and Sasha, that went into her shop is her manager and her DAUGHTER? :) I mean I'm totally lost from that point on.
P.S. I'll get back to the rest of the story later if no one else has corrected it by that time.
Frankly, it would be easier if you`d put the text directly into the posting area.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
I`ve been checking the 2 flie, it goes
"В то время находилась молодая продавшица Алина; в узком месте. (в переплёте?)
Кажется, при попытке найти у неё очки под прилавком, её упитанное туловище застрияло"
"Свой" is a pronoun just like "Я", "Ты", "Мы", "Вы" итд. It stands for "his" or "own" and I don`t think that it needs any previous mentioning \ referrence.
Examples are:
-Она замешкалась при попытке достать свой телефон из сумки.
-Паркуйте свои автомобили в разрешенных местах!
-Без очков я не вижу дальше своего носа.
-2004 Movie called "Свои" (meaning is "Our WW2 allies among betrayers")
https://www.kinopoisk.ru/film/79882/
Птица (single) -птицы (plural)Quote:
шумные птицы not птиц? I thought because they are animate.
Шумные птицы (nominative)
but
Шум птиц
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCake
"Маша и сын её, Саша, ходили пешком за покупками, а сейчас сынок устал." - is absolutely fine sentence, no need for "шли".
They have already done their shopping.
"Чем занимались сегодня? - Ходили за покупками"
"Я спешу, только ходила (or сходила) за покупками, и надо снова бежать"
etc
Yes, sure. If he did mean that the shopping had been done at that point and it seems like he did. I don't know why but when reading that sentence for the first time I had a feeling that he wanted to say thet they were on their way to do some shopping. Looks like a wrong assumption now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge_spb
на спине yes, If I had known that one, I'd have used it! Makes perfect sense.
Как-то удивленно смотря на свои кроссовки, которые шли внизу, Саша думал об этом. I realise they don't tend to move on their own, I was trying to express the idea that, from his point of view (tired boy) they seemed to be moving without him making them move. Difficult idea to get across in my own language!
увидел вокруг себя that's pretty much literally how we would say this in English, so I just translated literally, as a guess.
The gist of the story (its a bit compliocated) is that the mother and son go into a shop, and while looking at the rabbit, they hear the voice of the shop girl, who they can't see, so they think that the rabbit is talking...
I understand about Свой now, thanks. I was a bit confused, it seems.
Маша и сын её, Саша, ходили пешком за покупками, а сейчас сынок устал.
The idea here was just to express this idea:-
'Masha and her son, Sasha, were going shopping on foot, and/but now the young son had become tired.'
So I chose ходили as I thought it would imply that they do this (maybe) every week; an ongoing habit, a tiring, boring routine. Also to express the idea that they were in the middle of their shopping related journey when the other events occurred. I hadnt given any thought as to whether they had finished buying the shopping, or not. Sort of doesnt matter in this context.
Are those good reasons to choose ходили instead of шли?
Шумные птицы (nominative)
but
Шум птиц
yes, of course this is nominative птицы...
I see, then I suggest something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
Как-то удивленно смотря на кроссовки, которые, как казалось ему, шли сами, Саша думал об этом. Or a bit simpler - ...на кроссовки, которые как-будто шли сами...
This makes perfect sense now :D I guess this is where I got lost:Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
This kind of doesn't make much sense. I think you should have established the idea that the saleswoman got stuck behind the counter and couldn't be seen by customers :)Quote:
В то время находилась молодая продавшица Алина; в узком месте. (в переплёте?)
В это время, там находилась молодая продавщица Алина, которая застряла под прилавком и поэтому была скрыта от глаз покупателей. Something like that would have set off the upcoming events quite nicely.
I don't know why I didn't realise that I hadn't made it clear that the shop girl could neither see, nor be seen, due to being under the counter and hidden from view. It's so obvious now. Duh. I did write 'А внизу, под прилавком, Алина была невидимо.' later on, but that is a long way after the doorbell rining, I guess I should have put it in earlier.
Ah, then my initial correction was right, you should have used шли as it was an ongoing action at that time. You see, you're right that ходили implies a routine, habit, but only if the action is not happening now or at a time you're speaking of as ходили implies a completed action in that case.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
As @Serge_spb mentioned:
This means that in your sentence they were on their way FROM shopping and not on their way to "shopping", as you wanted to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge_spb
That's the difference.
I think you tried to do that, but failed due to your yet limited knowledge. No worries, you'll nail these kind of things soon enough and we'll be happy to help you on your way.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
One thing to note, in Russian невидимый usually means invisible in a sense of not being seen from any angle, in plain sight etc... Special forces kind of invisibility, which is not possible as of now as far as we know. If someone or something can't be seen because they're covered from view by something, then we usually say:
Её/его/их etc не было видно
All points noted. There's a lot to remember when choosing which verbal aspect to use, if I'm trying to express something that I haven't learned by rote. I think it is just a matter of exposure and practice. And thanks for the encouragement, that helps too! Any chance you could read some more, see if it makes any sense? No worries if not, as long as someone does.
If it’s any consolation, Russians have similar problems with English verbs. I guess the verb declension is too different between languages. So much as the rules seem to hardly make any sense for learners :) I still can't say that I nailed this part of English, even after several years.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
As for the rest of your story, don't worry, as I said I'll get to it later, I just don't have the time to check it thoroughly now. I'll try to do that tomorrow.
В доме (no comma needed, also it's best to say дома if you're talking about home, not some house) Маша и Саша смотрели на кролика, который был ещё в клетке. (without this ещё в клетке seems to be affecting Маша and Саша) Он беcшумно любовался на обоих (no comma needed) и тихо ел листья.
- Разве он может говорить! И какой приятный голос, милая крошка! - сказала Маша. Note: It seems like Masha already thinks that the rabbit can talk, therefore it'd be much better to say: Разве он не может говорить? Your original question is about whether it can speak or not, not asking for confirmation for your already established assumption. Note2: Можешь говорить and умеешь говорить are two different things usually, one is "can you speak now?", the other is "can you speak at all/in general?"
- Почему он такой тихий? Думаешь ему грустно из-за шока? Um, gramatically okay but shock usually causes other feelings, like fear, for example.
- Да, Сашенка, это шок. И утожеу меня тоже шок! Поклянись мне, что никогда никому не проронишь ни слова об этом. Понял? A bit advanced, but for future reference: In natural speech ни could be substituted with и: никогда никому не проронишь и слова. И is an additional intensifier here and doesn't mean "and".
- Да, Мама, понял, - ответил Саша, уже далее думая, - А как его назовём? Может Чебурашка? (No need for these "-" in the end of someone's phrase in a dialog). Also I don't like that далее in there at all. Better to get rid of it
- Нет, подождём пока он сам скажет. Better: пока он сам его (name) скажет. To avoid potential confusion.
При этом (no comma) маленький продолжал естьвокруг страница от вчерашнего газетапо кругу страницу от вчерашней газеты. Малый (Use маленький instead of малый here though) кусок, становился всё меньше и меньше, пока не осталось только одно слово, и пара прочитала в тон:
- Во-ло-дя ... Володя! Он сказал нам своё имя!
Они улыбнулись друг другу на такое чудо, а зайчик как раз бросился наземь (бросился is like abruptly and with a lot of force, maybe use just спрыгнул?. Наземь is kind of outdated now, better to say на землю), будто говоря: «пока всё!Either: Пока, всё! (Goodbye! It's all!) or Пока всем (Goodbye all!)»
. . .
Когда проснулся кролик, он был окружен со всехстороне ссторон лицами детей. Russian doesn't have a fixed word order true, but better swap проснулся кролик there, it would sound better.
- Ну, Саша, ты сказал, (comma should be before что, not after) что он умеет говорить. Давай! - сказал худой, рыжеватый юноша, трогая клетку, - Кажется, что Саша забыл своё вчерашнее обещание...
- Не говори так строго, (watch these commas :)) он боится, и Мама спит в другой комнате. Note: I guess you meant громко (loudly), not строго there, since the boy is worried about his mother sleeping in the other room? ;)
Встревожанний, мальенкий Володя - зайчикВстревоженный, маленький зайчик Володя укрылся под жеваной газетой. Сашина голова завертелась:
- Ой! Настоял я, чтобы пригласили только детей! Он вскрикнул, как раз когдапришливошли (stylistics, don't worry about this correction much) в комнату другие, в том числе и родители, и команда от местного телевидения, и знаменитая ведущая. Не кто иная (she's a girl after all), как Ирина Бронская, по прозвищу «Губитель.» Also губительница would be more appropriate for a woman
Ирина продолжала, обращаясь насмешливо к Маше:
- А вот Марья Петровна, владелец кролика «Володя.» Скажите нам, это что фокус-покус (no comma) или вы просто лгунья?
Тут Маша вскипела:
- ВОН! Терпеть не могу! Вон, все вон, немедленно!
. . .
To be continued later :) Great job buddy.
@Lampada
This forum editor really needs some lovel :) I mean it's short, even in an advanced state. It displays all the tags like color, italic, bold etc, essentially acting like a raw editor... Trying to correct a text like that and format it to look good is a MASSIVE pain in the butt. All of the tags in there mixed together with the normal text... Мешанина, просто мешанина. I spent more time battling this confusing mess of words with tags and trying to turn it into something easy to read than I spent trying to actually help our student.
Thanks loads iCake, I'm sorry there seems to have been extra difficulties with the formatting. Is that why Serge_spb said it would have been better if I had just pasted the text into the biody of the post, rather than attaching it?
- Нет, подождём пока он сам скажет. Better: пока он сам его (name) скажет. To avoid potential confusion.
So you mean
- Нет, подождём пока он сам его имя скажет.
Or can it just be '- Нет, подождём пока он сам его скажет.' because we know she's talking about his name?
Point taken about my sentence being ambiguious. It's harder than I thought to write and then read it back to myself as if I was just another reader. A skill I don't have yet.
Почему он такой тихий? Думаешь ему грустно из-за шока?
There are 2 related concepts covered by the word 'shock'; the first is a sudden intense surprise, the second is a medical term for the physiological after effects of trauma. I think I just assumed that 'шок' would mean both in Russian too.
зайчик как раз бросился наземь
When I first got a 'house rabbit', we brought him home in a box, and after a long while, he jumped out of the box, sat still for a moment, and then threw himself violently onto his side, as if he'd just died of a massive heart attack! Very alarming, but it seems to be what rabbits do.
а зайчик как раз бросился наземь/ как раз когда пришли вошли в комнату другие
I had intended 'как раз' to mean 'just then' or 'just at that time'. Would it need to be 'как раз когда' in both these sentences?
Thanks for ploughing your way through that. Is there a way I can make it easier to do? Or is it just posting the corrections that is unnecessarily difficult?
Don't worry about your text or about making it easier for me. It's not on your end. All's good ;)
Yes, this. Его just refers back to "name".Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
It does mean these two things in Russian as well. The thing is грустно means sadly. Do you feel sad from shock? I mean it doesn't make sense. Fear, surprise, pain... yes, but sadness? Not as a direct result of shock at the very least.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
Point taken :) I'm just not very familiar with rabbits. From what you said there it seems like you chose a perfect word in your Russian sentence, so great job!Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
This is very hard to explain... Let's look at the whole sentences.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
Они улыбнулись друг другу на такое чудо, а зайчик как раз бросился наземь.
Он вскрикнул, как раз когда вошли в комнату другие...
They're both fine now. You see both sentences are compound. The first sentence looks like it consists of two fully independent clauses, so no need to put in some extra "stitching" words. The second sentence seems like the first clause is independent, but the second is not. So you need a connecting word like "когда". But it's sketchy and I'm not entirely sure I'm not talking nonsense now :)
Просто не знаю, что сказать. Я абсолютный чайник в Ай-Ти. Для editing я copy-paste в Ворд.Quote:
Originally Posted by iCake
Может, обратиться к MasterAdmin?
Ну да. Я собственно на это и намекал :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
See PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by iCake
So, because word order is fluid, the connecting word 'когда' isn't necessarily the first word in the clause, is that correct?Quote:
Они улыбнулись друг другу на такое чудо, а зайчик как раз бросился наземь.
Он вскрикнул, как раз когда вошли в комнату другие...
...So you need a connecting word like "когда". But it's sketchy and I'm not entirely sure I'm not talking nonsense now :)
It could then also read 'когда как раз вошли в комнату другие...'
Although something about that sounds clumsy when I say it out loud to myself.
It's good that it sounds clumsy to you, that means you're developing an intuitive understanding of the language. Как раз когда - just when..., как раз - just then. In Russian "when" is a sign of a subordinate clause. I don't know if it helps clear things up for you. I don't like my original explanation and have been trying to think up a better one.Quote:
Originally Posted by grafrich
Как раз когда - just when..., как раз - just thenQuote:
Originally Posted by iCake
That puts it into perspective. The uses of 'when' to introduce subordinate clauses and 'then' to introduce independant clauses are basically the same in English, as far as I can tell.
I could translate 'Как раз когда...' as 'and it was at that moment that...' which I think serves the same purpose as 'just as':-
'... - He cried, just as others arrived'
'... - He cried, and it was at that moment that others arrived'
I think I'm right about that. I'll look at it again tomorrow when I'm less tired.