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Thread: Verbs of Motion

  1. #1
    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    Verbs of Motion

    Just received this from a listserve I subscribe to.

    From: gladney@ILLINOIS.EDU
    Subject: walking, going

    Dear Russian Speakers,

    Here are four scenarios:

    1. Ona shla po ulitse.
    2. Ona khodila po ulitse.
    3. Ona shla po parku.
    4. Ona khodil po parku.

    Is it clear in each case what is going on?

    From: Svetlana Grenier <greniers@GEORGETOWN.EDU>
    Subject: Re: walking, going

    Yes, it is clear: in "shla" she was "walking down the street", "walking
    through the park"; in "khodila", she was "walking back and forth in the
    street" or "he was walking around in the park." Of course, if you add
    other words (say "chasto khodila") it would mean something different.
    At least, that's how it sounds to me!

    From: "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg@PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
    Subject: Re: walking, going

    In every case, there are inherent ambiguities that the reader must fill
    in as the context warrants, or leave open if he doesn't care. Is the
    motion linear, circuitous, oscillating, etc.? Is the "she" a woman or a
    girl? Is the street broad or narrow? Was she walking on the sidewalk or
    in the street? Some parks (typically beside streams) are long and narrow
    -- was the motion along the length of the park?

    So the question can only be answered if Frank will give us a definition
    of "clear" that suits his purpose.

    From: oothappam <oothappam@EARTHLINK.NET>
    Subject: Re: walking, going

    It's nice that this appeared on the group list today,as it's precisely what I've been attempting to learn for the past few days.
    My book (Live From Russia) states: Used with verbs of motion, the preposition PO + dative means "around" or "along".Idti meaning walking in one direction, and hodit meaning walking in more than one direction, random motion, a round trip, or simply naming the habit of walking.These verbs are imperfective, too, so it has to be more of a past progressive feeling, not absolute past and done with.
    So, it seems to me that the sentences mean:

    1. Ona shla po ulitse. She was walking in one direction along the street.
    2. Ona khodila po ulitse.She was walking around the street, kind of wandering,looking around.
    3. Ona shla po parku.She was was walking around the park, in one direction-from one end to the other, once.This sounds like she was at the edge or one side of it, to me.
    4. Ona khodila po parku. She was walking around in the park leisurely, with no real purpose.
    ---
    That is my VERY rudimentary understanding so far!
    Nola

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    Re: Verbs of Motion

    Svetlana Grenier was right. Paul B. Gallagher didn't get the idea. oothappam was more or less right.

    Russian perfective and imperfective verbs were derived from old Slavic "one-time" and "multiple times" verbs.

    Shla (3rd fem. past from idti) means she walked just as a fact - perhaps once, in one direction.

    Hodila (3rd fem. from hodit') means to walk "multiple times", either walk around or walk usually (Ona hodit do metro peshkom = [usually] she walk to the [nearest] subway station (as opposed to taking a bus or tram).

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    Re: Verbs of Motion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kudesnik
    Russian perfective and imperfective verbs were derived from old Slavic "one-time" and "multiple times" verbs.
    Hm no. It is true that modern imperfective suffixes had frequentative (or iterative) meaning but this claim about "one-time" verbs is wrong I'm afraid. Semelfactivity (однократность) can be conveyed in modern russian for exemple with the ну suffix but this is only a special case of making a verb perfective.

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    Re: Verbs of Motion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zubr
    Quote Originally Posted by Kudesnik
    Russian perfective and imperfective verbs were derived from old Slavic "one-time" and "multiple times" verbs.
    Hm no. It is true that modern imperfective suffixes had frequentative (or iterative) meaning but this claim about "one-time" verbs is wrong I'm afraid. Semelfactivity (однократность) can be conveyed in modern russian for exemple with the ну suffix but this is only a special case of making a verb perfective.
    Both "idti" and "hodit'" are imperfective, but these verbs are different by "one time" vs. "many times" (or sometimes "at some moment" vs. "usually") meaning inherited from the ancient Slavic verb types.

    Perfective forms would be "poyti" and "shodit'".

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    Re: Verbs of Motion

    Добро пожаловать, Кудесник!
    Надеюсь, тебе у нас понравится.
    А кириллицы для русского у тебя нет?
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



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