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Thread: Question about Word order...

  1. #1
    Hanna
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    Question about Word order...

    I am a beginner but learning as fast as I can. I use electronic flash-cards a lot, for translating sentences from English into Russian...

    Sometimes I translate the words right, but the word order is wrong...
    I am not sure how important this is...?

    For instance, this sentence:

    сейчас вы можете кое-что купить в магазине (Correct order)
    сейчас вы можете купить кое-что в магазине (The word order that I used..)

    Is the second sentence acceptable, compltely wrong, or does it get a different meaning because of the different word order..

    Should I continue to be "strict" about the word order in this way?

  2. #2
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    The word order in Russian usually is VERY free.
    The both sentences you wrote are perfectly correct.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  3. #3
    Hanna
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    Super, big thanks!
    I was worried that the word order might slightly change the meaning of the sentence, if nothing else.

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    Re: Question about Word order...

    Благодаря падежам и родам слов управление в предложении сохраняется при перестановке слов, и потому предложения остаются понятными. Вот несколько вариантов вашего предложения (но их намного больше!):

    1) Сейчас вы можете кое-что купить в магазине;
    2) Сейчас в магазине вы можете кое-что купить;
    3) В магазине вы можете кое-что купить сейчас;
    4) Вы можете кое-что купить сейчас в магазине;
    5) Кое-что купить вы можете в магазине сейчас;
    6) Кое-что купить в магазине вы можете сейчас.

  5. #5
    Hanna
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    Thank you!
    I come across this problem quite a lot:
    I use the word order that is the closest to Western European, because that's what's logical to me... But the words in the text is in a different order and I don't know quite what to make of it...

    I'll probably come back here with a few more similar sentences until I can learn to determine this for myself without help...

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    Re: Question about Word order...

    This must be posted here -

    Йоды магистра речи тайна раскрыта, оказывается, на Форте программист старый есть он просто.
    Russian is tough, let’s go shopping!

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    Re: Question about Word order...

    In this sentence cases system are smashed, that is why sentence government is broke. Look at the three first words; they all are objects and in genitive form. So you don’t know what mystery are exposed: Yoda’s mystery, master’s mystery or mystery of a speech. In this sentence you must use word order which uncover a possession: тайна (чего?) речи (речи кого?) магистра (кого именно?) Йоды.

    Or use a new possession:
    Тайна Йоды, магистра речи, раскрыта, оказывается, он просто [есть] старый программист на Форте (кручу-верчу, обмануть хочу).

  8. #8
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    Quote Originally Posted by Звездочёт
    In this sentence cases system are smashed, that is why sentence government is broke. Look at the three first words; they all are objects and in genitive form. So you don’t know what mystery are exposed: Yoda’s mystery, master’s mystery or mystery of a speech. In this sentence you must use word order which uncover a possession: тайна (чего?) речи (речи кого?) магистра (кого именно?) Йоды.

    Or use a new possession:
    Тайна Йоды, магистра речи, раскрыта, оказывается, он просто [есть] старый программист на Форте (кручу-верчу, обмануть хочу).
    Йода не магистр речи, он магистр совета джедаев. И раскрыта не его тайна, а тайна его речи.

    Йоды магистра речи тайна раскрыта <--> раскрыта тайна речи магистра Йоды

    Любому программисту на Форте это должно быть очевидно!
    Налево пойдёшь - коня потеряешь, направо пойдёшь - сам голову сложишь.
    Прямой путь не предлагать!

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    Re: Question about Word order...

    I know it, Полуношник.
    Quote Originally Posted by Я
    In this sentence you must use word order which uncover a possession: тайна (чего?) речи (речи кого?) магистра (кого именно?) Йоды.
    Or use a new possession:
    I just shown that reverse order has a meaning too.

  10. #10
    Hanna
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    What about this sentence - same thing?

    I wrote: Вы не хотели бы пообедать со мной?

    Boook wrote
    : Не хотели бы вы пообедать со мной?

  11. #11
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    Both sentences are correct.

  12. #12
    Hanna
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    Thanks!
    Can you think of any reason why they used the second form rather than the first?
    Or is it completely random / unimportant?

  13. #13
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    Re: Question about Word order...

    I do not know why. However, usually we put verbs with particles «ли» and «бы» at a beginning in questions and requests. It doesn’t mean that different variants are incorrect, but a verb + «ли/бы» at a beginning is a wide usage. That’s why a predicate + «ли» (but not + «бы») after a subject sounds unusual, poetic and bookish.

    1) Не могли бы вы помочь мне?
    2) Нет ли у вас молока?
    3) Пойдёте ли вы со мной?
    4) The sentence "Принесёшь ли (predicate) ты (subject) книгу (object) завтра (adverbial modifier)?" sounds normal; the sentence "Ты книгу принесёшь ли завтра?" is right grammatically , but sounds like phrase from a poem.
    5) However, "Пошли бы вы со мной?" is equal "Вы пошли бы со мной?"

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