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Thread: bloody confusing word order!

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    Почтенный гражданин Mordan's Avatar
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    bloody confusing word order!

    Фамилия мне твоя ни о чем не говорит......

    when I first read this, i was like " WTF!@!# I don't understand!

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    Yeah, no kidding; any native speakers want to tell us why the heck you phrase it that way?
    Заранее благодарю всех за исправление ошибок в моём русском.

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    Re: bloody confusing word order!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan
    Фамилия мне твоя ни о чем не говорит......

    when I first read this, i was like " WTF!@!# I don't understand!
    You understand it now? Just in case you don't: Your surname doesn't tell me anything/doesn't mean anything to me
    Hei, rett norsken min og du er død.
    I am a notourriouse misspeller. Be easy on me.
    Пожалуйста! Исправляйте мои глупые ошибки (но оставьте умные)!
    Yo hablo español mejor que tú.
    Trusnse kal'rt eturule sikay!!! ))

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    Re: bloody confusing word order!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan
    Фамилия мне твоя ни о чем не говорит......

    when I first read this, i was like " WTF!@!# I don't understand!
    He-he, welcome to the world of the language of freedom, where you are able to choose a word order you prefer
    My English isn't so good, зато с русским все в порядке ))
    I'll be very thankful, if you correct my mistakes.

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    Re: bloody confusing word order!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan
    Фамилия мне твоя ни о чем не говорит......

    when I first read this, i was like " WTF!@!# I don't understand!
    Why is твоя not next to фамилия?
    How do these sound?

    Твоя фамилия мне ни о чем не говорит......
    or
    Фамилия твоя мне ни о чем не говорит......
    Какая разница, умереть богатым или бедным?

    Какой толк от богатства если ты не счастлив.

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    Re: bloody confusing word order!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwatts59
    Why is твоя not next to фамилия?
    How do these sound?

    Твоя фамилия мне ни о чем не говорит......
    or
    Фамилия твоя мне ни о чем не говорит......
    A striking example of that word order doesn't play an important part in Russian. All the phrases (including Mordan's one) look fine

    P.S. I definitely made a mistake in my first sentence, but I don't know how to say it correctly ("яркий пример того, что порядок слов не играет важной роли в русском языке")
    My English isn't so good, зато с русским все в порядке ))
    I'll be very thankful, if you correct my mistakes.

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    Re: bloody confusing word order!

    Quote Originally Posted by pranki
    A striking example of that word order doesn't play an important part in Russian. All the phrases (including Mordan's one) look fine

    P.S. I definitely made a mistake in my first sentence, but I don't know how to say it correctly ("яркий пример того, что порядок слов не играет важной роли в русском языке")
    Only a very small mistake. No "of"... oh and maybe part should be role.

    A striking example that word order doesn't play an important role in Russian.
    Hei, rett norsken min og du er død.
    I am a notourriouse misspeller. Be easy on me.
    Пожалуйста! Исправляйте мои глупые ошибки (но оставьте умные)!
    Yo hablo español mejor que tú.
    Trusnse kal'rt eturule sikay!!! ))

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    What about these variants:
    Не говорит фамилия мне твоя ни о чём.
    Ни о чём фамилия твоя не говорит мне.

    BTW Are you sure "of that" is incorrect? I'm pretty sure some people say that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basurero
    BTW Are you sure "of that" is incorrect? I'm pretty sure some people say that.
    It was completely unintelligible to me until kalinka pointed out that the "of" was extraneous. You could say "A striking example of the small part word order plays in Russian," but "of that" doesn't make any sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basurero
    What about these variants:
    Не говорит фамилия мне твоя ни о чём.
    Ни о чём фамилия твоя не говорит мне.
    Five "bricks' of that sentence ("твоя", "фамилия", "не говорит", "мне", "ни о чём") can be rearranged in any order and still result an uderstandable and grammaticlly correct phrase, though some variants will be twisted and stylistically poor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basurero
    What about these variants:
    Не говорит фамилия мне твоя ни о чём.
    Ни о чём фамилия твоя не говорит мне.

    Actually, these variants are more weird (look like Master Yoda's speech), but, anyway, they make sense
    My English isn't so good, зато с русским все в порядке ))
    I'll be very thankful, if you correct my mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basurero
    BTW Are you sure "of that" is incorrect? I'm pretty sure some people say that.
    And I am pretty sure some people don't speak grammatically correct English. If you I mean get what!

    and I am one of them...
    Hei, rett norsken min og du er død.
    I am a notourriouse misspeller. Be easy on me.
    Пожалуйста! Исправляйте мои глупые ошибки (но оставьте умные)!
    Yo hablo español mejor que tú.
    Trusnse kal'rt eturule sikay!!! ))

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    LOL

    What about

    Твоя ни о чём не мне говорит фамилия.
    Какая разница, умереть богатым или бедным?

    Какой толк от богатства если ты не счастлив.

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    Завсегдатай kalinka_vinnie's Avatar
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    or
    не твоя фамилия мне говорит ни о чем

    Isn't that a whole different meaning?
    Hei, rett norsken min og du er død.
    I am a notourriouse misspeller. Be easy on me.
    Пожалуйста! Исправляйте мои глупые ошибки (но оставьте умные)!
    Yo hablo español mejor que tú.
    Trusnse kal'rt eturule sikay!!! ))

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwatts59
    LOL

    What about

    Твоя ни о чём не мне говорит фамилия.
    Cheater! You've broken the "bricks"! (and Kalinka too)
    My English isn't so good, зато с русским все в порядке ))
    I'll be very thankful, if you correct my mistakes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
    or
    не твоя фамилия мне говорит ни о чем

    Isn't that a whole different meaning?
    Actually, it doesn't make sense at all. It's because говорит has an affirmative sense, and ни о чем has a negative one. In English such phrases are common (for example, "says nothing"), but not in Russian. You have to put не before говорит
    My English isn't so good, зато с русским все в порядке ))
    I'll be very thankful, if you correct my mistakes.

  17. #17
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    "не говорит" must be used like singe "brick", imho
    The bear looked at the car, and reflections of fire danced in his eyes. He knew what to do.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pranki
    Quote Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
    or
    не твоя фамилия мне говорит ни о чем

    Isn't that a whole different meaning?
    Actually, it doesn't make sense at all. It's because говорит has an affirmative sense, and ни о чем has a negative one. In English such phrases are common (for example, "says nothing"), but not in Russian. You have to put не before говорит
    Well, it does make some (very weird) sense -- in a proper context it would mean "the name, which is not yours, tells me about nothing". There is also an expression "govorit' ni o chem" meaning "talk about nothing [important]".

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    Почтенный гражданин Mordan's Avatar
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    wow!

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    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    Word order is very important in Russian. I can't elucidate the particular nuances of the initial phrase, which does sound pretty unusual, but here are some simple examples, all of which convey to the listener different information. The basic concept of John reading a book is there, but there are big differences otherwise.

    Иван читает книгу. John is reading a/the book.
    Книгу читает Иван. It's John who is reading a/the book.
    Иван книгу читает. ??
    Читает Иван книгу. What's John reading? -A book.
    Читает книгу Иван. Who's reading a/the book?

    Each of these sentences conveys additional information beyond John reading a book.

    And we're not even going to mention Книга читается Иваном (he said, mentioning).

    So, native speakers, what can you say about this to convince us poor Americans, locked into such a rigid word order that we have to jump through hoops to circumlocute, that Russian word order, as Mr. pranki said above, "doesn't play an important part in Russian."

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