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Thread: Passive Voice

  1. #1
    JackBoni
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    Passive Voice

    I am struggling slightly when it comes to writing sentences in the Russian passive voice. Can anyone explain the formation of it to me? Preferably with complicated explanations in English, as I am far less likely to understand any such explanation in Russian. How do you express the idea of "by" in this context?

    In case I am mistaken, I think the passive in English would be:
    The dog was ran over by a car

    As opposed to the "active voice" which would be: The car ran over the dog.

    большое спасибо за помащь

    Джек

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    Re: Passive Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    I am struggling slightly when it comes to writing sentences in the Russian passive voice. Can anyone explain the formation of it to me? Preferably with complicated explanations in English, as I am far less likely to understand any such explanation in Russian. How do you express the idea of "by" in this context?

    In case I am mistaken, I think the passive in English would be:
    The dog was ran over by a car
    Using instrumental ( кем/чем ) case for subject - car.
    Собака была сбита машиной. ( short form of сбитая )
    ps. I checked
    http://starling.rinet.ru/morph.htm
    and there is no passive for transitive переехать ( in meaning to run over smb).
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    Re: Passive Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    большое спасибо за помощь
    If you want to use переехать then
    Собаку переехала машина. (no passive).
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Как насчёт, "Пешеходов стали давить автомобилистами в своих машинах." ?
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    Как насчёт_ "Пешеходов стали давить автомобилисты на своих машинах." ?
    Плохая перспектива.

    Это не пассив.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  6. #6
    Властелин charlestonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    Как насчёт, "Пешеходов стали давить автомобилистами в своих машинах." ?
    Well, I don't know what to say. I want to say thanks to the Academy, to Mama, to Papa and to my dog. I love you all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    Как насчёт_ "Пешеходов стали давить автомобилисты на своих машинах." ?
    Плохая перспектива.

    Это не пассив.
    Shouldn't автомобилисты be in Instrumental Case? Since the pedestrians are run over BY motorists?
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    Shouldn't автомобилисты be in Instrumental Case? Since the pedestrians are run over BY motorists?
    Пешеходов - КОГО? - this is an object - this is an accusative (so it should be a subject - in a nominative - in the sentence).
    стали давить - ЧТО ДЕЛАТЬ?
    КТО стал делать? - автомобилисты (a nominative).

    And I repeat: this is not a passive! (in Russian)
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    It is worth noting that we use the passive voice in English more than they do in Russian.

    How to form the passive voice:

    Method 1: The mysterious 'they'.

    The bridge is being build - This is passive voice in English
    One way in Russian to use the passive voice is to indroduce an indentified 'they' (The pronoun Они is not used):
    Строят мост


    Method 2: The reflexive approach.

    Another way to express the passive voice is to use a reflexive verb that agrees with the subject.

    Мост строится - Yes, it looks like 'The bridge is being itself, but it means 'The bridge is being built'.


    NOTE: 'Mост' is the SUBJECT of this sentence and therefore is in the NOMINATIVE case.

    Another example:
    Книга читается - The book is being read / is read.
    Again, here, Книга is gramatically the subject, so it is in the nominative.

    Method 3: The Past Passive Participle

    Past Passive Participles are formed from perfective verbs. I am not going to explain how they are formed.

    Мост построен - the bridge is/was [has been] built.
    Книга напечатана - the book is/was [has been] printed.

    To express the agent (who is doing the action), you put it in the instrumental case:

    Мост построен американцами - The bridge was built by Americans.
    Книга напечатана украинкой - The book was printed by a Ukrainian woman.


    -----------


    As mentioned, English uses the passive more. In English we are more likely to say "The bridge was built by Americans." In Russian it would be fine to say: "Мост построили американцы" "Americans built the bridge" (Active voice).
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Quote Originally Posted by DDT
    Как насчёт_ "Пешеходов стали давить автомобилисты на своих машинах." ?
    Плохая перспектива.

    Это не пассив.
    Shouldn't автомобилисты be in Instrumental Case? Since the pedestrians are run over BY motorists?
    Автомобилисты стали давить пешеходов своими машинами. If you want instrumental case.
    Налево пойдёшь - коня потеряешь, направо пойдёшь - сам голову сложишь.
    Прямой путь не предлагать!

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    I can't believe you guys forgot about the almighty present passive participle! You know, the ones that end with -мый. It normally translates as 'being [past participle]' in English, and declines like any normal adjective in Russian.

    Этот вопрос никак не связан с обсуждаемой здесь темой.
    This question has nothing to do with the topic being discussed here.

    Ускоряемые частицы увеличивают свою энергию.
    Accelerated particles increase their energy.

    The agent, as with every other passive form explained earlier, is marked by the instrumental case (underlined here).

    From an article on yarsk.ru:
    ..выдвигаемая "Единой Россией" идея партийного правительства не актуальна для России.

    (Note: that construction is sometimes used as an equivalent for English/French '-able'. E.g. Русские идиомы - непереводимы -Russian idioms are untranslatable.)
    "С чий очи сънувам, чий е този лик обречен?
    Смъртен глас ми се причува и отеква с вик далечен
    Как да зърна да погледна, чуждий образ да прегърна,
    на лицето ми студено грях в надежда да превърна.."

  12. #12
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    Yazeed, но нельзя сказать "пешеходы, давимые водителями"!
    Хотя грамматически это правильно.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Мост построился в 1996 г. - The bridge was built in 1996.
    Non-existent.
    "Дерево выросло" is ok. But the bridge can't build itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Мост был построен (or "построили") в 1996 г. - The bridge was built in 1996.
    Only this way.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Но "строился", я думаю, возможно.

    Мост строился (строили) медленно, что причиняло огромные неудобства жителям соседних улиц.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaya
    Но "строился", я думаю, возможно.
    Yes, "строился" возможно.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Yazeed, но нельзя сказать "пешеходы, давимые водителями"!
    Хотя грамматически это правильно.
    Несогласен, так сказать можно, хотя фраза и необычная. Здесь водители действуют активно: давят пешеходов машинами или чем-то ещё. По крайней мере, такое понимание предложения возможно. А во фразе "пешеходов стали давить водителями", водители - просто предмет, с помощью которого кто-то избавляется от ненавистных пешеходов. Так можно сказать про юнит в компьютерной игре: "Дави их автомобилистами!"
    Налево пойдёшь - коня потеряешь, направо пойдёшь - сам голову сложишь.
    Прямой путь не предлагать!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Yazeed, но нельзя сказать "пешеходы, давимые водителями"!
    Хотя грамматически это правильно.
    Согласен. Это причастие чаще всего встречается в энциклопедиях и журнадах. Если перефразировать предложение, я бы употреблял действительный залог. Гораздо лучше (и проще).
    "С чий очи сънувам, чий е този лик обречен?
    Смъртен глас ми се причува и отеква с вик далечен
    Как да зърна да погледна, чуждий образ да прегърна,
    на лицето ми студено грях в надежда да превърна.."

  19. #19
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    [quote=Полуношник]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Оля":13dj3z0o
    Yazeed, но нельзя сказать "пешеходы, давимые водителями"!
    Хотя грамматически это правильно.
    Несогласен, так сказать можно, хотя фраза и необычная.[/quote:13dj3z0o]
    Ну а я что сказала? Я и говорю - "грамматически это правильно", в том числе и по смыслу правильно. Но звучит плохо.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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