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Thread: The Nominative Plural

  1. #1
    JackBoni
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    The Nominative Plural

    Hi

    As far as I'm aware, the nominative plural of the two nouns медвед and сосед are медведи and соседи. I am wondering why. They are both hard masculine nouns, and neither are affected by any of the spelling rules, so, they should theoretically end in -ы, right?

    Are there any other common nouns that do this? Could it be that nouns ending in -ед just end in -и in the nominative plural, for no particular reason? I don't know, just a suggestion. Maybe it's a relic of an old plural form from Old Church Slavonic, or something like that?

    Thanks
    Jack

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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    As far as I'm aware, the nominative plural of the two nouns медведь and сосед are медведи and соседи.
    The word "медвед" does not exist, there is only "медведь".
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  3. #3
    JackBoni
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Oh, well, that would explain why that has its nominative plural the way it does, then. The other word seems irregular to me, though. Are there any other words that end like сосед? If it has its nominative plural in соседи, I assume its plural in the other cases are соседов, соседям, соседи, соседями, соседях, then?

    Jack

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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    I assume its plural in the other cases are сосед[s:3tz8an92]ов[/s:3tz8an92]ей, соседям, сосед[s:3tz8an92]и[/s:3tz8an92]ей, соседями, соседях, then?
    Almost.

    I actually don't know rules, so I don't know why it is so...
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    " Plural Nouns
    ...
    Remember Special Cases:
    сосед - соседи
    сын - сыновья
    брат - братья
    друг - друзья
    дочь - дочери
    мать - матери
    стул - стулья
    чудо - чудеса
    дерево - деревья"


    http://www.foreigndocuments.com/learnru ... nouns.html
    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



  6. #6
    Почтенный гражданин
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Yes, the plural of сосед is соседи. All o-stem nouns in Old Russian ended with -и in the nominative, not -ы. Соседи is such a common word that the -и ending has survived to this day, whereas most other o-stems nouns have gone to -ы.

  7. #7
    JackBoni
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Quote Originally Posted by doninphxaz
    Yes, the plural of сосед is соседи. All o-stem nouns in Old Russian ended with -и in the nominative, not -ы. Соседи is such a common word that the -и ending has survived to this day, whereas most other o-stems nouns have gone to -ы.
    That's very interesting. Does anyone know of anywhere I can look into Old Church Slavonic, beside on Wikipedia? I find Wikipedia to be a little too dry. I assume this is where the exceptions to these so-called rules come from?

    Thanks very much.

    Jack

  8. #8
    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    No, it's not OCS, it is Old Russian. OCS is not the same. google for russian language history. I know there are textbooks, but the ones I have in mind are in Russian.

    Check here.

  9. #9
    JackBoni
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Oh, I didn't know they were different; thank you, Chaika. I will check that out a little later - I am leaving to go back to uni now . Which textbooks did you have in mind? I know you said they were in Russian, but a little immersion never hurt anyone, did it?

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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    Oh, I didn't know they were different; thank you, Chaika.
    In a short, sometimes it is stated that OCS is actually protobulgarian. Christianity came to Rus from Byzantium through Bulgaria and the religious language used by all eastern slavics was originally formulated for bulgarians (and by bulgarians).
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  11. #11
    Старший оракул
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    JackBoni, I've been noticing your quotes do not look as I’m sure you want them to, so try inserting = sign like in between these blue highlighted words: quote=domminphxaz” and everything will turn back to normal.

  12. #12
    JackBoni
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Quote Originally Posted by alexB
    JackBoni, I've been noticing your quotes do not look as I’m sure you want them to, so try inserting = sign like in between these blue highlighted words
    Oh, that's what I keep missing out, then. Thanks

    Jack

  13. #13
    JackBoni
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    That's interesting to know, thanks. Now that I have some time, I am going to look into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by it-ogo
    In _ short, sometimes it is stated that OCS is actually protobulgarian. Christianity came to Rus from Byzantium through Bulgaria and the religious language used by all Eastern Slavics (better: Slavs) was originally formulated for Bulgarians (and by Bulgarians).
    In English, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a capital letter.

    Hope that helps.

  14. #14
    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    В.И. Борковский, П.С. Кузнецов, Историческая грамматика русского языка

  15. #15
    JackBoni
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    Re: The Nominative Plural

    Спасибо всем за помощь.

    Джек

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