Thread: Genetive question

I have my Russian 200B final exam tomorrow morning, and I'm stuck on something.

Looking through my old tests there is a translation bit with "I don't read Japanese books"

I translated it as (forgive my lack of cyrillic but I'm kind of in a rush) "Ya ne chitayu yaponskih knig"

It was marked correct, but this was 4 months ago and I don't understand for the life of me why Japanese books is in genetive and not accusative.

An explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by NineOne

I have my Russian 200B final exam tomorrow morning, and I'm stuck on something.

Looking through my old tests there is a translation bit with "I don't read Japanese books"

I translated it as (forgive my lack of cyrillic but I'm kind of in a rush) "Ya ne chitayu yaponskih knig"

It was marked correct, but this was 4 months ago and I don't understand for the life of me why Japanese books is in genetive and not accusative.

An explanation would be greatly appreciated.

If the verb is negated the object usually goes into the genetive:

Я читаю японские книги
Я не читаю японских книг

Other places where negation = genetive:

У меня есть машина
У меня нет машины

Ивана нет - Ivan is not here

Originally Posted by TATY

If the verb is negated the object usually goes into the genetive:

Я читаю японские книги
Я не читаю японских книг

Я этого не знал, потому что я не делал домашней работы.

(Wha )

Originally Posted by TATY

If the verb is negated the object usually goes into the genetive:

Я читаю японские книги
Я не читаю японских книг

Other places where negation = genetive:

У меня есть машина
У меня нет машины

Ивана нет - Ivan is not here

How often does that apply though? I mean is it usually like that with verbs (that use a direct object), and are there exceptions?

So this sentence is correct?
Я этого не знал, потому что я не делал домашней работы


Ahh I'm confused now.

Originally Posted by NineOne

Ahh I'm confused now.

Me too!

Originally Posted by NineOne

So this sentence is correct?
Я этого не знал, потому что я не делал домашней работы

Yes, but is it more correct and natural than it's accusative counterpart?

Originally Posted by BlackMage

Originally Posted by NineOne

So this sentence is correct?
Я этого не знал, потому что я не делал домашней работы

Yes, but is it more correct and natural than it's accusative counterpart?

Homework is Домашнее задание

The New Penguin course says: "There is a general rule which says: if a transitive verb is negated, the object is in the genitive, not the accusative:

Он знает русский язык
Он не знает русского языка
Она читала русские книги
Она не читала русских книг

Set phrases:
ирать роль (acc.)
Это не играет роли - Tha doesn't matter / plays not part (gen.)
Он не обращает внимания - He pays no attention.

However in conversational russian it does not often apply. If the negation applies more to the verb than to the noun, the accusative is preffered.

Не окрывайте окно - DON'T OPEN the window
Я не знаю эту женщину - I DON'T KNOW that woman

If the object is strongly negated, it goes in the genitive. Like "I didn't buy a single thing", "I don't know any thing at all", etc.

Use genitive if the object is an abract noun, a general thing, or Это

Accusative is used for people, or something that would take the definate article (the) in English. E.g.:


Я не читаю газет - I don't read newspapers (GEN)
Я не читал эту газету - I didn't read that newspaper (ACC)

The first one means I don't read newspapers in general.
The second means I didn't read that particular newspaper


Why do you think you say Я ничего (gen.) не знаю, and not Я ничто (acc.) не знаю ?

Originally Posted by TATY

Homework is Домашнее задание.

Had you done yours you'd know that домашняя работа is an acceptable alternative, particularly in the case of young children.

Why do you think you say Я ничего (gen.) не знаю, and not Я ничто (acc.) не знаю ?

Are you saying it's incorrect to say я не знаю ничто?

Originally Posted by BlackMage

Originally Posted by TATY

Homework is Домашнее задание.

Had you done yours you'd know that домашняя работа is an acceptable alternative, particularly in the case of young children.

Why do you think you say Я ничего (gen.) не знаю, and not Я ничто (acc.) не знаю ?

Are you saying it's incorrect to say я не знаю ничто?

Well I've never heard it. And wouldn't natural word order put ничто after я. Maybe it's not incorrect, just not usual.

I was more talking about why ничто is used much less than ничего.

Basically Ничто is only really used if it is the subject. Because it is a strong negative word (you can't get much more negative than nothing), the genitive is strongly preffered if it is the object.

Originally Posted by BlackMage

Are you saying it's incorrect to say я не знаю ничто?

Yeah, my Russian sucks, but that sounds bizzare to me. I've always heard it like "я ничего не знаю." And I've always heard "домашнее задание" also -- which doesn't mean your take is wrong, but it's probably better to say д.з.

домашнее задание=домашка

but it's probably better to say д.з.

так не говорят.. только пишут сокращение такое =)

Originally Posted by NineOne

I have my Russian 200B final exam tomorrow morning, and I'm stuck on something.

Looking through my old tests there is a translation bit with "I don't read Japanese books"

I translated it as (forgive my lack of cyrillic but I'm kind of in a rush) "Ya ne chitayu yaponskih knig"

It was marked correct, but this was 4 months ago and I don't understand for the life of me why Japanese books is in genetive and not accusative.

An explanation would be greatly appreciated.

You can say both:

Я не читаю японских книг
Я не читаю японские книги

Я не вижу наклеек
Я не вижу наклейки

Я не готовлю обеды
Я не готовлю обедов

Я не покупаю булочки
Я не покупаю булочек

Я не читаю газеты
Я не читаю газет

The main difference between sentences in which you use accusative case and the other in is which you use genetive case is that usage genitive case amplify the negative.
Pay attention:
You cannot say - Я читаю газет - its wrong!!!
You can only say - Я читаю газеты
If you are not sure - It' better for you to use accusative - not genetive - in such cases!!!

Originally Posted by BlackMage

Are you saying it's incorrect to say я не знаю ничто?

It's wrong. (only Я не знаю ничего or Я ничего не знаю) the last one sounds great to me!!!

Originally Posted by TATY

And wouldn't natural word order put ничто after я.

You can say: Я ничто (по сравнению с вами)

Originally Posted by Chuvak

Originally Posted by BlackMage

Are you saying it's incorrect to say я не знаю ничто?

It's wrong. (only Я не знаю ничего or Я ничего не знаю) the last one sounds great to me!!!

I know.

A useless comment: One can say Я знаю нечто

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

A useless comment: One can say Я знаю нечто

No they can't (unless I'm mistaken, нечто must always be used with the infinitive of a verb; нечто знать is possible, but not нечто знаю).

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

A useless comment: One can say Я знаю нечто

No they can't (unless I'm mistaken, нечто must always be used with the infinitive of a verb; нечто знать is possible, but not нечто знаю).

Are you sure??? I find examples in Google and Yandex with this construction... what does the natives say?

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

Are you sure??? I find examples in Google and Yandex with this construction... what does the natives say?

Храпят.