Thread: consonant mutation

Why does Писать become Пишу, but летать doesn't become лечу?

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become Пишу, but летать doesn't become лечу?

because the stem of "писать" is "писа-" and the stem of "летать" is "летай" and there is only that kind of consonant mutation on "-a" stemed verbs.

писать(писа-) = пишу
летать(летай-) = летаю
сказать(сказа-) = скажу
читать(читай-) = читаю

How do I know which are -а stems and which are -ай stems? Is it just something you have to know that doesn't have any real pattern, like жить having a stem of жив-?

yes, you just have to memorize them. Infinitive, 1st.p. sg., 2nd p. sg. That will give you all the forms and the stress positions for just about all verbs.

Originally Posted by brucewayne

How do I know which are -а stems and which are -ай stems? Is it just something you have to know that doesn't have any real pattern, like жить having a stem of жив-?

well the reason "жить" has the stem of "жив-" is because when making the infinitive of a verb, and if there is a consanant at the end of the stem, you usually knock off the consonant and add "-ть".

same reason that the infinitive of the verb stem "читай-" is "читать" and not "читайть". The "-ть" knocks off the consonant "й".

it is the same thing when forming the past tense of verbs:

читать(читай-) = читал/а/о
жить(жив-) = жил/а/о

Originally Posted by zomby_pengy

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become Пишу, but летать doesn't become лечу?

because the stem of "писать" is "писа-" and the stem of "летать" is "летай" and there is only that kind of consonant mutation on "-a" stemed verbs.

писать(писа-) = пишу
летать(летай-) = летаю
сказать(сказа-) = скажу
читать(читай-) = читаю

I assume by only on "-a" verbs you only mean to exclude -ай verbs, given that mutation exists in -ить verbs and some other cases?

Originally Posted by challenger

Originally Posted by zomby_pengy

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become Пишу, but летать doesn't become лечу?

because the stem of "писать" is "писа-" and the stem of "летать" is "летай" and there is only that kind of consonant mutation on "-a" stemed verbs.

писать(писа-) = пишу
летать(летай-) = летаю
сказать(сказа-) = скажу
читать(читай-) = читаю

I assume by only on "-a" verbs you only mean to exclude -ай verbs, given that mutation exists in -ить verbs and some other cases?

correction:

"-a" verbs are conjugated as "-ай" verbs. so we're talking about a different group of verbs rather than the "-ить" verbs =)

Originally Posted by zomby_pengy

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become Пишу, but летать doesn't become лечу?

because the stem of "писать" is "писа-" and the stem of "летать" is "летай" and there is only that kind of consonant mutation on "-a" stemed verbs.

писать(писа-) = пишу
летать(летай-) = летаю
сказать(сказа-) = скажу
читать(читай-) = читаю

I don't see any rule here (my native language is Russian). IMHO, you just have to memorize that all. Could you please explain where come this difference from:

писать(write) - пишу
писать (piss, urinate) - писаю
сосать - сосу
чесать - чешу
бросать - бросаю
спасать - спасаю

Originally Posted by Guin

Originally Posted by zomby_pengy

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become Пишу, but летать doesn't become лечу?

because the stem of "писать" is "писа-" and the stem of "летать" is "летай" and there is only that kind of consonant mutation on "-a" stemed verbs.

писать(писа-) = пишу
летать(летай-) = летаю
сказать(сказа-) = скажу
читать(читай-) = читаю

I don't see any rule here (my native language is Russian). IMHO, you just have to memorize that all. Could you please explain where come this difference from:

писать(write) - пишу
писать (piss, urinate) - писаю
сосать - сосу
чесать - чешу
бросать - бросаю
спасать - спасаю

well that all is in the pattern that i stated above.

the stem of писать = писа-
писать = писай-
сосать = сос-(? this verb doesn't seem to go with the pattern, but maybe the verb stem is coc- which would explain its conjugation being сосу, сосёшь, сосёт, etc. in the pattern of the "-ай" verbs)
чесать = чеса-
бросать = бросай-
спасат = спасай-

as you can see...the "-ай" stemmed verbs have no mutation whereas the "-а" stemmed verbs have the mutation

Originally Posted by zomby_pengy

well that all is in the pattern that i stated above.

the stem of писать = писа-
писать = писай-
сосать = сос-(? this verb doesn't seem to go with the pattern, but maybe the verb stem is coc- which would explain its conjugation being сосу, сосёшь, сосёт, etc. in the pattern of the "-ай" verbs)
чесать = чеса-
бросать = бросай-
спасат = спасай-

as you can see...the "-ай" stemmed verbs have no mutation whereas the "-а" stemmed verbs have the mutation and conjugate differently than the "-ай" verbs (but rather in the pattern of the "-ить" verbs)

I don't quite understand what do you mean saying "stem"? I know only the term "root (корень слова)", but it has nothing in common with that what you say. As I can see, you just try to build the imperativ from each word, and see if there is "-ай" at the end? I think that works, but you will have to memorize the imperativ forms in any way. So, I'm not sure that this rule will be of help for beginners.

well being a native Russian speaker i suppose you may not be fimiliar with the stems of verbs? I don't know...but for people who are learning Russian, usually you learn the stems of verbs and then build upon that to learn how to make the imperative, present forms, past forms, etc.

so if you were learning for the first time the verb "писать" you would more than likely first learn the stem of the verb "писа-". Because by looking at the stem of a verb, you can usually tell what kind of conjugation the verb will have. So by learning firstly the stemof verbs, you can automatically decide what the conjugation most likely is and wether or not there is any mutation.

So for instance, if someone were to go to a student of Russian and introduce them with the verb stem "читай-" the student would automatically be able to tell:

1) that the verb will be conjugated as "читаю, читаешь, читает, читаем, читаете, читают" with no consonant mutation.
2) that the past tense of the verb will be "читал/а/о"
3) that the infinitive of the verb will be "читать"
4) that the imperative of the verb will be "читай(те)"

in the same way as the verb stem "писа-" would tell you that:

1) that the verb will be conjugated as "пишу, пишешь, пишет, пишем, пишете, пишут" with no consonant mutation.
2) that the past tense of the verb will be "писал/а/о"
3) that the infinitive of the verb will be "писать"
4) that the imperative of the verb will be "пиши(те)"

Originally Posted by zomby_pengy

well being a native Russian speaker i suppose you may not be fimiliar with the stems of verbs? I don't know...but for people who are learning Russian, usually you learn the stems of verbs and then build upon that to learn how to make the imperative, present forms, past forms, etc.

so if you were learning for the first time the verb "писать" you would more than likely first learn the stem of the verb "писа-". Because by looking at the stem of a verb, you can usually tell what kind of conjugation the verb will have. So by learning firstly the stemof verbs, you can automatically decide what the conjugation most likely is and wether or not there is any mutation.

So for instance, if someone were to go to a student of Russian and introduce them with the verb stem "читай-" the student would automatically be able to tell:

1) that the verb will be conjugated as "читаю, читаешь, читает, читаем, читаете, читают" with no consonant mutation.
2) that the past tense of the verb will be "читал/а/о"
3) that the infinitive of the verb will be "читать"
4) that the imperative of the verb will be "читай(те)"

in the same way as the verb stem "писа-" would tell you that:

1) that the verb will be conjugated as "пишу, пишешь, пишет, пишем, пишете, пишут" with no consonant mutation.
2) that the past tense of the verb will be "писал/а/о"
3) that the infinitive of the verb will be "писать"
4) that the imperative of the verb will be "пиши(те)"

It is so interesting and complex! I did not realy think about it. In the school we've learned nothing like this (I think you are right, the native speakers don't need that). I have to think it all over... But, stop! I'd rather not to do that, because there is a danger, that this "thinking" can make me perplexed, and I'll begin, God forbid, to make errors in my Russian.

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become Пишу, but летать doesn't become лечу?

But it does! Or am I missing something?

Я часто летаю в Москву - I often fly to Moscow.
Я лечу в Москву - I am flying to Moscow just now or I am going to.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become
Я лечу в Москву - I am flying to Moscow just now or I am going to.

This is the 1st person form of *летить, not летать.

So where do I find the stem? It isn't mentioned in dictionary nor in my coursebook.

Originally Posted by paasikivi

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by brucewayne

Why does Писать become
Я лечу в Москву - I am flying to Moscow just now or I am going to.

This is the 1st person form of *лететь, not летать.

So where do I find the stem? It isn't mentioned in dictionary nor in my coursebook.

Originally Posted by paasikivi

This is the 1st person form of *лететь, not летать.

So where do I find the stem? It isn't mentioned in dictionary nor in my coursebook.

Thanks. I tried to trace "лечу" то it's origin, but failed, shamefully.
And I know nothing about stems either.

I don't quite understand what do you mean saying "stem"? I know only the term "root (корень слова)"

'Stem' means 'основа'.

The definitions from different dictionaries:

В грамматике: вся часть слова до окончания. Непроизводная о. (равная корню). Производная о. (корень вместе с суффиксами).

Часть слова, образующая его материальное, лексическое значение и состоящая из корня, а также суффикса и приставки, в противоп. флексии или окончанию (грам.). В слове "ручка" основа - "ручк".

Часть слова, остающаяся после отсечения окончания. Основа - носитель лексического значения слова. Может равняться корню ("дом"), включать приставки, суффиксы ("без-греш-н-ый"), в некоторых языках - инфиксы.

There isn't much point asking "why". Why is the Russian word for dog Sobaka and not Makakamomo? Becuase it is.

Originally Posted by TATY

There isn't much point asking "why". Why is the Russian word for dog Sobaka and not Makakamomo? Becuase it is.

Actually, after a long debate, it was because only male dogs can be neutered. See Decree #17, AH CCCP.