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Thread: Aspect "Брала"

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    Aspect "Брала"

    "Онабра ла ту книжку из библиотеки."

    Это означает ли "Она отдала ту книжку в библиотеку" т.е. "та книжка уже у ее нет" ?

    A couple of reference books say she took the book from the library and returned it back to the library because of the imperfective verb.

    But as far as I heard, sometimes yes and some times no, namely, she may still keep the book.

    What is the correct answer?

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    Re: Aspect "Брала"

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki
    "Онабра ла ту книжку из библиотеки."

    Это означает ли "Она отдала ту книжку в библиотеку" т.е. "та книжка уже у ее нет" ?

    A couple of reference books say she took the book from the library and returned it back to the library because of the imperfective verb.

    But as far as I heard, sometimes yes and some times no, namely, she may still keep the book.

    What is the correct answer?
    I think it means she's returned it.

    If you say "Она брала книжку в библиотеке" it means she took a book out the library and returned it. = "Она взяла книжку в библиотеке и потом ее вернула."

    "Она взяла книжку в библиотеке" = she's taken the book from the library and still has it.
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    Она брала эту книжку в библиотеке.
    Она взяла эту книжку в библиотеке.

    "Из библиотеки" is wrong in this sentence.
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    Nope.

    Я знаю, что она брала книгу в библиотеке, но не знаю, вернула или нет.

    Она взяла книгу в библиотеке, прочитала и вернула.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Она брала эту книжку в библиотеке.
    Она взяла эту книжку в библиотеке.

    "Из библиотеки" is wrong in this sentence.
    Thank you for your correction!

    It seems OK to say "Она взяла эту книжку из библиотеки."
    If so, then why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Она брала эту книжку в библиотеке.
    Она взяла эту книжку в библиотеке.

    "Из библиотеки" is wrong in this sentence.
    Почему? Вполне нормально.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocos
    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Она брала эту книжку в библиотеке.
    Она взяла эту книжку в библиотеке.

    "Из библиотеки" is wrong in this sentence.
    Почему? Вполне нормально.
    Знчит, можно сказать "Она взяла книжку из библиотеки."?

    Однако, немного проверил по интернету, и мне кажется, что
    также говорят "Она взяла книжку из библиотеки."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki
    Так же можно сказать "Она взяла книжку из библиотеки."?
    Yes. But the most important difference between the verbs "брать" and "взять" is that "брать" answers to the question "что делать?" (Imperfective) and "взять" answers to the question "что сделать?" (Perfective).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocos
    Почему? Вполне нормально.
    Normal is not good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki
    It seems OK to say "Она взяла эту книжку из библиотеки."
    If so, then why?
    "Из библиотеки" is understandable and grammatically correct, but it's not a common way to say it.

    So a deliberate change of preposition in this standard expression attracts attention and even can give an impression that the speaker hints at something (like he/she just "took" the book from the library without permission or something ).

    I'd advise just to stick with "брал/взял в библиотеке".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocos
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki
    Так же можно сказать "Она взяла книжку из библиотеки."?
    Yes. But the most important difference between the verbs "брать" and "взять" is that "брать" answers to the question "что делать?" (Imperfective) and "взять" answers to the question "что сделать?" (Perfective).
    Thank you very much for your further comment.

    My summary is as follows:

    Она брала книжку в библиотеке.
    (Generally correct)

    Она брала книжку из библиотеки.
    (Some people think this is incorrect.)

    Она взяла книжку в библиотеке.
    (Generally correct)

    Она взяла книжку из библиотеки.
    (Generally correct according to my Internet checking.)

    The above second sentence issue may be related to the aspect issue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocos
    Почему? Вполне нормально.
    Normal is not good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki
    It seems OK to say "Она взяла эту книжку из библиотеки."
    If so, then why?
    "Из библиотеки" is understandable and grammatically correct, but it's not a common way to say it.

    So a deliberate change of preposition in this standard expression attracts attention and even can give an impression that the speaker hints at something (like he/she just "took" the book from the library without permission or something ).

    I'd advise just to stick with "брал/взял в библиотеке".
    I see. Thank you for your advice. I do not intend to steal....

    How about the following example?

    Стивен Кинг.ру - Творчество Стивена Кинга - Темная Башня 5. Волки ...
    Сразу бросается в глаза : Отец Каллаган взял книгу из библиотеки для того, чтобы взять дальше с собой во второй прыжок. И уж конечно, не для того, чтоб оставить ее для развлекательного чтения Эдди.

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    Yuki, your all sentences are correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki
    How about the following example?

    Стивен Кинг.ру - Творчество Стивена Кинга - Темная Башня 5. Волки ...
    Сразу бросается в глаза : Отец Каллаган взял книгу из библиотеки для того, чтобы взять дальше с собой во второй прыжок. И уж конечно, не для того, чтоб оставить ее для развлекательного чтения Эдди.
    This is a perfect example of a poor translation. Seriously. "Взял... чтобы взять".

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    Она взяла книжку из библиотеки.
    (Generally correct according to my Internet checking.)
    No, no, no! It's WRONG (or at least it's a bad style). *wails in despair*

    Internet checking gives you some hits, but most of them use this expression in another context (or just not very good Russian).

    For example, "Я взяла книгу из отцовской библиотеки" is correct. It means she took a book from her father's collection of books, not from a real library (an organisation, that lends books).

    This one is ok too: "Я взял несколько книг из "Библиотеки программиста": the guy took some books from the Programmer library series (i.e. again a collection of books of some kind).

    Talking about electronic libraries (collections of books, icons, smileys, etc.) people also often use "взять из библиотеки".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocos
    Yuki, your all sentences are correct.
    Come on, Cocos. They are grammatically correct and more or less ok, sure, but they are not equally good. Stop confusing poor learners.

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    On the second thought... Who cares? The difference is rather subtle.
    You can use both and you'll be understood.

    Just keep in mind that "из библиотеки" focuses more on the fact that you physically take an item from the library (take it out from the building, for example), while "в библиотеке" is more about using library services (the fact that the book is not your own). Often these two meanings mingle together.
    That's how I see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    Come on, Cocos. They are grammatically correct and more or less ok, sure, but they are not equally good. Stop confusing poor learners.
    Well, I think, you are right and I am not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    On the second thought... Who cares? The difference is rather subtle.
    You can use both and you'll be understood.

    Just keep in mind that "из библиотеки" focuses more on the fact that you physically take an item from the library (take it out from the building, for example), while "в библиотеке" is more about using library services (the fact that the book is not your own). Often these two meanings mingle together.
    That's how I see it.
    Thank you very much for your helpful comment. I feel your comment is quite suitable. ( I spent some time in Russia and remember life to some extent.)

    ...subtle but this is a very interesting topic. I never thought that the preposition could be a very difficult topic.....

    Sorry for my <Oil in Oil>. Just one more.

    Тема «Как Вы познакомились с жанром фантастика/фэнтези»
    -
    Отправлено 03 мая 2007 г. 23:18цитировать. Варианта моего ответа здесь нет. Первый раз я взял книгу из библиотеки, и это была книга Уэллса "Человек-невидимка". Затем были другие книги Уэллса, Обручев, Толстой, Беляев и пошло-поехало.

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    You're welcome.
    ...subtle but this is a very interesting topic. I never thought that the preposition could be a very difficult topic.....
    Yes, it can be tricky and really hard to explain. Moreover, there's often a disagreement among native speakers about a preferable variant, because every person has a unique manner of speech and probably imagine different contexts.

    You'll see that "в/из" (and "взять в/из") can be used in similar phrases and in the certain context can mean roughly the same (the nuances differ, though).

    Ex. "Я взял сок в холодильнике" ~ "Я взял сок из холодильника"

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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    You're welcome.
    ...subtle but this is a very interesting topic. I never thought that the preposition could be a very difficult topic.....
    Yes, it can be tricky and really hard to explain. Moreover, there's often a in the certain context can mean roughly the same (the nuances differ, though).
    .........
    Ex. "Я взял сок в холодильнике" ~ "Я взял сок из холодильника"

    One more question

    Она брала книгу в библиотеке.

    In case this sentence implies she returned the book to the library, she just read it in the library and did not take it out the library?


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki
    Она брала книгу в библиотеке.

    In case this sentence implies she returned the book to the library, she just read it in the library and did not take it out the library?
    Given that context, I would say that she did take it out of the library.

    Why do you ask this question? Is it that somebody told you that she might not, after all, take that book out of the library? If they did, they might have in mind different context.

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