Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 33 of 33
Like Tree17Likes

Thread: страдательные причастия прошедшего времени (Very Difficult Question)

  1. #21
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Пафос - Кипр
    Posts
    1,719
    Rep Power
    10
    We, who deal with natural or technical sciences professionally, often feel a kind of snobbery about humanitarian and social disciplines. According to our methodological icon Karl Popper, they can not use Scientific Method consistently because due to the nature of their objects, their statements actually can not satisfy Falsifiability criterion (and thus can't be really "scientific")
    Some terminology I haven't came across for some years. Just allow me to add an additional opinion, that does not neccesarilly disagree or agree with those mentioned above.
    Ludwig Wittgenstein* and his theory of social games are in my opinion the most descriptive, or if you want the dominant paradigm, in Comparative linguistics.
    "Ancient Greek can be compared to the lingusitic game with the most comprehend and accurate rules, which cannot be explained based on the current experimental methodolgy due to the lack of context or even understanding of that particual time being ...", "the philosophical theocracy of that time required the structure of a linguistic vehicle so complicated that lead the deliberate alternation of the intrinsic character of the language to a tool of propagandation of mere intelligence so as to exterminate the slighest margin of randomness**, which at that time of naturalism and humanitarism, was considered more or less a disease" - Philosophical Investigation, 1953***

    * Perhaps the most influential philosopher of social sciences of the 20th century
    ** The underlying was done by Wittgenstein on his original book
    ***Translated from the Greek Version of 1998
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

  2. #22
    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairfax, VA (Фэйрфэкс, ш. Виргиния, США)
    Posts
    1,591
    Rep Power
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by Soft sign View Post
    This resembles the Russian folk tale «Каша из топора» (Axe porridge).
    Thanks for sharing that! In English, and in several other languages, this story is usually called Суп из камня, "Stone Soup," or less often Суп из гвоздя, "Nail soup." In the versions I'm familiar with, many people from the village add just a little bit to the soldier's soup: one gives a carrot, another an onion, another puts in a handful of dried beans, someone offers a beet, an old woman pours in a cup of rice, etc. So the soldier gets a free dinner, but everyone else gets an ALMOST free dinner!
    Soft sign likes this.

  3. #23
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,049
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    "Ancient Greek can be compared to the lingusitic game with the most comprehend and accurate rules, which cannot be explained based on the current experimental methodolgy due to the lack of context or even understanding of that particual time being ...", "the philosophical theocracy of that time required the structure of a linguistic vehicle so complicated that lead the deliberate alternation of the intrinsic character of the language to a tool of propagandation of mere intelligence so as to exterminate the slighest margin of randomness**, which at that time of naturalism and humanitarism, was considered more or less a disease" - Philosophical Investigation, 1953***
    So basically he thinks that Ancient Greek was a construct of philosopers rather than natural language. And the first people's common Greek was Koine after Alexander?
    Antonio1986 likes this.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  4. #24
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Пафос - Кипр
    Posts
    1,719
    Rep Power
    10
    So basically he thinks that Ancient Greek was a construct of philosopers rather than natural language. And the first people's common Greek was Koine after Alexander?
    I don't know and unfortunately we cannot ask him
    Koine Greek? Very few Greeks know what even this mean I am impressed it-ogo! Honestly impressed!
    it-ogo I think you should start studying less and come to Cyprus and help me with these thousand Russian millionaires who don't know how and where to spend their money
    And when we make a lot of money... we can sponsor the research on Comparative Linguistics
    Soft sign likes this.
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

  5. #25
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,049
    Rep Power
    27
    Money avoid me. Probably because I don't show enough passion for them.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  6. #26
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Пафос - Кипр
    Posts
    1,719
    Rep Power
    10
    I was playing now a rally video game on the mobile phone and it says: "Chase the hunted car".
    The word hunt in russian is охотиться . As I know this type of verbs (i.e. непереходный with ending -ся) don't have страдательное причастие прошедшего времени.
    So in this case I must conclude that there is an adjective describing the word "hunted".
    How I must translated this expression?
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

  7. #27
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    710
    Rep Power
    27
    Вероятно, подойдут причастия выслеживаемая, преследуемая, разыскиваемая, либо сложноподчинённое определение "на которую объявлена охота". Затрудняюсь сказать, как перевести фразу в целом.
    Antonio1986 likes this.

  8. #28
    Paul G.
    Guest
    The best solution (in my opinion) would be "Преследуйте разыскиваемую машину".

    Chase him! = Преследуй(те) его!
    "Разыскиваемый" implies something like "wanted" here.

    Antonio1986 likes this.

  9. #29
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Пафос - Кипр
    Posts
    1,719
    Rep Power
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    Some structural issues:
    1. Страдательные причастия прошедшего времени are composed from verbs. In order to be formed the following endings are used:
    -енный
    -атый
    -ённый
    -анный

    2. In some cases the ударение is transfered (increased)

    Question: Is there a rule what ending to use when we form them (-енный -атый -ённый -анный )?
    Possible answered to my question:
    1. As I already mentioned: when the verb ends in -ать and its First Conjugation Verb you use the ending -анный
    2. When the прошедшее время глагола оканчивается in any other form different that -ал then the most probable окончание is -eнный (e.g. построить > построил > построенный )
    3. When the прошедшее время глагола оканчивается in - ыл then the most possible ending is -тый (закрыть > закрыл > закрытый)
    4. Still now answer when to use -ённый

    Prichastiya in Russian are a real mess.
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

  10. #30
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    3,049
    Rep Power
    27
    убить - убитый
    одеть - одетый
    выжать - выжатый
    зачать - зачатый

    I don't see the rule to distinguish between -тый and -нный.

    Antonio1986 likes this.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  11. #31
    Paul G.
    Guest
    Казнить - казнил - казнённый (executed)
    Закрепить - закрепил - закреплённый (fixed)
    Лишать - лишил - лишённый (deprived)
    Удивлять - удивил - удивлённый (surprised)
    Изумить - изумил - изумлённый (amazed)
    Поразить - поразил - поражённый
    Сразить - сразил - сражённый
    Заклеймить - заклеймил - заклеймённый

    Расстрелять - расстрелял - расстрелянный (shot)
    Забыть - забыл - забытый (forgotten)
    Побить - побил - побитый (beaten)
    Lampada and Antonio1986 like this.

  12. #32
    Завсегдатай Antonio1986's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Пафос - Кипр
    Posts
    1,719
    Rep Power
    10
    I would like to ask something about the use of the страдательные причастия прошедшего времени, by presenting the following example:
    1. Музей, построенный архитектором Антоном , самое красивое здание нашего города.
    2. Музей, который был построен архитектором Антоном , самое красивое здание нашего города.

    In my ears they sound totally the same. But are they in reallity?

    Also I noticed that when a страдательные причастия прошедшего времени is expressed on a future or a past tense then we usuaully use the краткую форму.
    For example is difficult for me to imagine where I will use the expression:
    1. Музей, который был построенный (-ым) архитектором Антоном ...
    2. Музей, который будет построенный(-ым) архитектором Антоном ...
    Чем больше слов, тем меньше они стоят.

  13. #33
    Paul G.
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio1986 View Post
    1. Музей, построенный архитектором Антоном , самое красивое здание нашего города.
    2. Музей, который был построен архитектором Антоном , самое красивое здание нашего города.

    In my ears they sound totally the same. But are they in reallity?
    Yes, they are.

    1. Музей, который был построенный (-ым) архитектором Антоном ...
    2. Музей, который будет построенный(-ым) архитектором Антоном ...
    Yes, you're right.

    Построенный - > построен (one "н")
    Сделанный -> сделан

    Эти часы были сделаны под заказ. (сделать -> сделанные -> сделаны)
    Ваш заказ будет готов завтра. (готовить -> готовый -> готов)
    Antonio1986 likes this.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. adverbial participles (difficult question)
    By Antonio1986 in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: November 8th, 2013, 06:28 AM
  2. Participles and Genetive (Difficult Question)
    By Antonio1986 in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: September 21st, 2013, 09:40 AM
  3. прошедшего накануне
    By sperk in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 15th, 2011, 11:56 AM
  4. Эмоциональные Причастия
    By Георгий in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 4th, 2008, 06:22 PM
  5. Запяти и причастия
    By Vladi in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: July 16th, 2006, 01:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary