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Thread: Ненормативная лексика и мы

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    Почётный участник Sgt. Cold's Avatar
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    Question Ненормативная лексика и мы

    Spin-off topic from can somebody help?very short phrase

    What no translation because people here are old fashioned and sensitive now? Oh...this forum is really going down the tubes!
    Last edited by Lampada; February 6th, 2011 at 05:48 PM.
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    Почтенный гражданин Demonic_Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold View Post
    What no translation because people here are old fashioned and sensitive now? Oh...this forum is really going down the tubes!
    Yes, that sucks.

    All we need is a UBBC tag (e.g. [spoiler], [nsfw], or something similar) that hides content inside it until clicked, then people need not have their oh-so-delicate sensibilities offended if they don't want to read it.
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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    So, what's now? We are not going down the drain any longer, are we?

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    It is more like "You are crazy idiot" though more rude.

    "ebanutii na golovu" (F*ed over the head) is an idiom which means crazy (insane and aggressive)
    "dibil" ("subnormal") = idiot
    "blyat" ("whore") is an indefinite expressive interjection and does not relate to addressee. Should be separated by comma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    So, what's now? We are not going down the drain any longer, are we?
    We need some academical approach.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Just to make sure we don't go down the drain, I will explain to themoreyoulearn:

    (1) The noun дибил or дебил comes from дебильность, which means "cognitive debilitation" -- so etymologically, it's more or less similar to the English "RE-tard."

    (2) The obscene word бл*дь does literally mean "whore," but in most contexts one should freely translate it as "holy sh!t" or "Jesus t!tty-f*cking Christ" (©2004 Team America: World Police) or "for f*ck's sake," etc. -- in other words, it quite often has NO grammatical connection whatsoever to any other word in the sentence, nor does it have any literal reference to prostitution or slutty women. (But it's always obscene!) So one could translate that sentence you gave by moving the blyat to the front and saying, "Holy sh!t, you're f*cked in the head, retard!" Or you could "creatively render" the blyat as "You're f*ckin' f*cked in the head, retard!"

    (3) Russians sometimes act like they're the Jedi Masters of Cussing ("There's no мат in the whole world as filthy as our русский мат," etc.), but in practice they can be surprisingly shy about the subject, especially when teaching these words (or hearing them!) from foreigners. Bear in mind that the most obscene Russian words all have to do with sex -- and many Russians still blush at saying секс out loud, in public, and prefer to say половой акт. For this reason, I strongly advise that when you happen to learn Russian cuss words, you should not use any of these dirty words yourself in an attempt to convince Russians that you're a bad-ass mofo.

    (4) If you absolutely can't resist the urge to cuss in Russian, it's better to use euphemisms such as блин, ё-моё, пипец, and so forth -- this way, you can still "show off" your knowledge of slangy, slightly rude Russian, without causing huge offense. Trust me, Russians won't think that you sound like some prissy Ned Flanders type if you use блин instead of бл*дь. (Note that these euphemisms are still rude, but are nevertheless a lot milder than the words/phrases they replace. I would guess that they are at approximately the same level of inappropriateness as the words "fart" or "bullcrap" or "this sucks" in English.)

    Edited to add for Russians: Be advised that using the English noun "tard" to describe someone who actually has Down Syndrome or autism or any other cognitive disability sounds EXTREMELY offensive (and "lower-class") to 100% of educated English speakers, while the formerly-polite adjective "retárded" for such individuals is now considered old-fashioned and therefore may offend some people (Cf. "Negro", "Chinaman", "Jewess" -- all these were polite in the past, but now rather offensive).

    So I strongly advise that you NEVER EVER use these words in a literal way when conversing in English. On the other hand, the metaphoric use of these words for people of normal intelligence who are behaving stupidly is a bit more controversial -- some English speakers take offense at this usage, others don't.
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

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    Почётный участник Sgt. Cold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampada View Post
    So, what's now? We are not going down the drain any longer, are we?
    Nope, we have left the drain pipe! MasterRussian is once again on it's way to dominating the world. We shall crush all other pathetic attempts to copy us!
    "It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." --- Voltaire ---
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    Почётный участник Sgt. Cold's Avatar
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    "It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." --- Voltaire ---
    -- Исправьте мои ошибки --

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cold View Post
    Nope, we have left the drain pipe! MasterRussian is once again on it's way to dominating the world. We shall crush all other pathetic attempts to copy us!
    And it's all thanks to you! Hurrah!

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    Почтенный гражданин Demonic_Duck's Avatar
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    [spoiler]You know, we could save ourselves all this petty squabbling if only we had spoiler tags[/spoiler]

    Actually, in the meantime, I guess it's still possible to use [color=#fafafa][/color] (#fafafa exactly matches the background colour of this forum)

    Example:
    "Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks" - Andre Young, Ph.D.
    ^ highlight at your own risk ^
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    Подающий надежды оратор
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    ("There's no мат in the whole world as filthy as our русский мат,"
    This statement can be applied to virtually any Slavic language so we're not alone

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    Почтенный гражданин Demonic_Duck's Avatar
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    I don't think that's necessarily true. It's just that many of us in the English-speaking world have become completely desensitised to obscene language.
    Демоническая Утка
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demonic_Duck View Post
    I don't think that's necessarily true. It's just that many of us in the English-speaking world have become completely desensitised to obscene language.
    Yeah, but is that any bad?

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    Почтенный гражданин Demonic_Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric C. View Post
    Yeah, but is that any bad?
    Not at all, I'd say that desensitisation to profane language is a good thing, as it doesn't make any sense to be offended by a single word. The vast majority of the meaning of words comes from context - even the word "fuck" can be used in a positive way for emphasis, for example "that's fucking brilliant!"

    The point I'm really trying to make is that Russian мат isn't really any more obscene than English profanity. The difference is that more people are likely to be offended by мат, because they aren't desensitised to it. Similarly, in England 50 years ago, the phrases "damn it" or "to hell with it" would have been considered more rude than phrases such as "fuck it" or "that's such bullshit" would be considered now. That doesn't mean that "damn it" is actually more rude than "fuck it", it just means that people were more offended by it.

    ^ Highlight to show obscene words ^
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    zxc
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    A fairly comprehensive tour through Russian can be found at Russian Cursing for Beginners: Learn to Curse in Russian .
    (The content on the page isn't all of it, you can buy the e-book there for $7.)

    Of course, I'd advise to my fellow English speakers to avoid using these words (look but don't touch). Thus, I can recommend it because it is helpful for comprehension, as the longer you interact with Russians, the higher the chances of you hearing such words is.

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    I'd say that desensitisation to profane language is a good thing, as it doesn't make any sense to be offended by a single word.
    Of course, the problem with "desensitization" is that obscenities stop being obscene if everyone in society agrees not to be offended by them!

    Thus, if I hit my fingers with a hammer, it is far more emotionally satisfying to yell "Oh f*ck!" than "Oh, fudge!"

    But if every English speaker became 100% "desensitized" to "f*ck*, and parents stopped scolding their children for using this word, then "Oh, f*ck" would lose its power -- it would no longer give "cathartic satisfaction" after you've hit your finger with a hammer.

    And yelling "F*ck me harder! F*ck me deeper!" during sex would sound the same as "Make love to me with more vigor and speed!"))))

    P.S. In today's English, the phrase "to make love" is (always) a euphemism for "to have sex" or "to f*ck," and really has no other meaning.

    But in 19th-century English, and perhaps even until the 1940s or 1950s, "to make love (to someone)" meant the same thing as "to flirt with" or "to court."

    Thus, in older literature (before the WW2 era), it was quite normal to see a woman asking a man: "Sir, are you making love to me?"

    Which, then, was understood to signify "Excuse me, Mister, it sounds as though you are trying to be flirtatious -- is this your intent, or have I misunderstood you?"
    But nowadays it can only mean "Are you putting your penis in my vagina?"
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    By the way, the website Русский мат – Russian slang dictionary – Russisches Schimpfwörterbuch – Dictionnaire d’argot russe is another free online source with a Russian-to-English obscenity dictionary, and also includes French/Russian and German/Russian мат-tionaries, although these are shorter and less detailed than the Russ/Eng one. (Also, the creator of the site is a Frenchman who speaks English and Russian with fluency, but he is not a native носитель of either language.)

    The "fake tourist phrasebook" is especially funny and can be appreciated even by your friends who don't know Russian at all (for instance, the jokes about cheap hotels and police who expect bribes are rather universal). Be aware, however, that the English translations are deliberately inexact and euphemistic and DO NOT reflect the true dirtiness of the Russian phrases (for example, "П*зд*ц, какой дубак!" is translated as "Blimey, it's freezing cold"!). But the not-totally-correct English translations seem to be done on purpose, to create a humorous "Hungarian Phrasebook" effect, and not because the author is incompetent.

    Scroll down to the bottom of the phrasebook page for a humorous version of a very famous picture from the Pioneer space probes!
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

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    Почтенный гражданин Demonic_Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Of course, the problem with "desensitization" is that obscenities stop being obscene if everyone in society agrees not to be offended by them!

    Thus, if I hit my fingers with a hammer, it is far more emotionally satisfying to yell "Oh f*ck!" than "Oh, fudge!"

    But if every English speaker became 100% "desensitized" to "f*ck*, and parents stopped scolding their children for using this word, then "Oh, f*ck" would lose its power -- it would no longer give "cathartic satisfaction" after you've hit your finger with a hammer.
    Hmm. You make a good point here. Well, I personally don't feel any offence at swear words and I still feel the same cathartic satisfaction by saying them. Maybe it's just the knowledge that someone, somewhere in the world, would cover their ears in shock upon hearing my outburst. In which case, to all you people who are needlessly offended by certain words: I extend my thanks to you. Your self-righteous indignation has a positive impact on my well-being, and for that I am truly grateful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    And yelling "F*ck me harder! F*ck me deeper!" during sex would sound the same as "Make love to me with more vigor and speed!"))))
    I'm going to have to try that line next time I have sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Thus, in older literature (before the WW2 era), it was quite normal to see a woman asking a man: "Sir, are you making love to me?"

    Which, then, was understood to signify "Excuse me, Mister, it sounds as though you are trying to be flirtatious -- is this your intent, or have I misunderstood you?"
    But nowadays it can only mean "Are you putting your penis in my vagina?"
    Haha, that reminds me of this:

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    Well, I personally don't feel any offence at swear words and I still feel the same cathartic satisfaction by saying them.
    Однажды я готовил обед у сестры и глубоко разрезал палец ножом. Конечно, очень хотелось пользоваться матом, однако маленький племянник Алекс (ему исполнится четыре года в марте) сидел за столом в кухне, играя с пластилином. И думал я "Хоть бы мальчика не было в кухне, чтобы я смог устно ругаться с G*ddamn f*ck sh*t c*cksucker son-of-a-b*tch!!" -- а вместо этого, я по-громко шептал, "Oh, shoot, darn it!", чтобы притягать внимание сестры. Она, видя что со мной, пластырь из ванной принесла, и всё было нормально, а племмяник всё задавал-задавал нам вопросы: "Папочка, пачему Джадже Робу пластир нужен?" -- "Потому что он разрезал палец. Пластырь сделает всё лучше." -- "Ладно, а пачему Джаджя Роб разрезал палиц?" -- "Потому что он был неосторожен с ножом." -- "А пачему?"

    (Once I was cooking dinner at my sister's house and cut my finger deeply with a knife. Naturally, I very much wanted to use some cuss words; however, my little nephew Alex -- who will turn four in March -- was sitting at the kitchen table, playing with clay. And I thought, "I really wish he weren't in the kitchen, so that I could say G*ddamn f*ck sh*t c*cksucker son-of-a-b*tch out loud!" But instead, I loudly whispered, "Oh, shoot, darn it!" in order to get my sister's attention. Seeing what was the matter with me, she brought a bandage from the bathroom, and everything was okay, but my nephew kept on asking us question after question: "Daddy, why Onka Rob needs a bandid?" -- "Because he cut his finger. The bandage will make it better." -- "Oh. Why Onka Rob cut his finga?" -- "Because he was not being careful with the knife." -- "Why?")
    Говорит Бегемот: "Dear citizens of MR -- please correct my Russian mistakes!"

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    Moderator Lampada's Avatar
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    Моя версия.
    Quote Originally Posted by Throbert McGee View Post
    Однажды я готовил обед у сестры и глубоко порезал палец/порезался. Конечно, очень захотелось выругаться, однако маленький племянник Алекс (ему исполнится четыре года в марте) сидел на кухне за столом, играя с пластилином. И подумал я "хорошо бы мальчика не было здесь, чтобы я смог громко выругаться G*ddamn f*ck sh*t c*cksucker son-of-a-b*tch!!". А вместо этого мне пришлось громко прошептать: "Oh, shoot, darn it!", стараясь привлечь внимание сестры. Она, увидев, что со мной, принесла пластырь из ванной, и всё закончилось хорошо. А мой племянник всё задавал и задавал нам вопросы: "Папочка, пачиму Джадже Робу пластир нужен?" -- "Потому что он порезал палец. Пластырь всё поправит." -- "Ладно, а пачиму Джаджя Роб разрезал палиц?" -- "Потому что он был неосторожен с ножом." -- "А пачиму?"
    Молодец! Хороший дядя и правильный братик!

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