Thread: Translation of a very little poem

Hello everybody. I need a faithful translation of these simple lines of a poem/epitaph:

"шапки товарищи снимем перед этои гранитнои скалои ребята мы вас не покинем. мы теплом своим согреем ваши души, не покинувшие этих гор"

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by jgonc

Hello everybody. I need a faithful translation of these simple lines of a poem/epitaph:

"шапки товарищи снимем перед этои гранитнои скалои ребята мы вас не покинем. мы теплом своим согреем ваши души, не покинувшие этих гор"

Thanks in advance.

Here it is, line-by-line -- a few spelling corrections in red, stressed vowels underlined, and I've tried to add commas/periods where appropriate (though I often screw up Russian punctuation!)...

Шапки, товарищи, снимём
Let's take off [our] hats, comrades,

перед этой гранитной скалой.
in front of this granite cliff.

Ребята, мы вас не покинем.
Guys, we shall not abandon you.

Мы теплом своим согреем ваши души,
With our own warmth [i.e., physical body-heat], we'll warm up your souls,

не покинувшие этих гор.
which have not abandoned these mountains.

It's a deceptively simple but very powerful epitaph, presumably a prayer or memorial to lost mountain-climbers!


P.S. A few vocabulary notes if you're curious:

The word шапка very specifically means "a warm winter cap/hat made from fur or knitted from wool":

shapka-platochnoi-vyazkoi-raznocvetnaya.jpg

-- as opposed to шляпа, which can mean all sorts of hats, from an Abraham Lincoln "stovepipe hat" to a Mexican sombrero.

Товарищ is very often translated to English as "comrade" (i.e, suggesting the official terminology of Communism), but in non-Soviet contexts, a better and more colloquial translation could be "buddy" (US) or "mate" (UK).

Ребята is used only in the plural and especially (though not always) in second-person "vocative" constructions -- thus, it's extremely close to English "Hey, you guys!"

The verb покинуть ("to leave a place; to abandon a person; to quit a habit") is perfective; the corresponding imperfective is покидать.

And ironically enough, the noun душа ("the immortal human soul") is treated as неодушевлённое ("grammatically inanimate") -- not just here, but in general.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Шапки, товарищи, снимём

сни́мем

Ребята is used only in the plural and especially (though not always) in second-person "vocative" constructions -- thus, it's extremely close to English "Hey, you guys!"

Throbert, the word Ребята can have the substitute of "sons"?

I thank you so much for your effort Throbert, I knew from the start this translation, although short, would not be easy to assert. Indeed, it is a powerful epitaph in honour of 9 russian hikers who lost their lives in a very mysterious way back in February of 1959. Once again, thank you for your big help.

Originally Posted by jgonc

the word Ребята can have the substitute of "sons"?

"Ребята" primary meaning is "children". Form "Ребятишки" means more clearly "pre-teenagers".
Children can use "ребята" to refer to themselves.

If adults apply word "ребята" to themselves it is like they are long-term friends, from childhood, who are used to refer to themselves as "ребята". Usually it is sign of strong and long-lasting friendship.

Originally Posted by Alex80

"Ребята" primary meaning is "children". Form "Ребятишки" means more clearly "pre-teenagers".
Children can use "ребята" to refer to themselves.

If adults apply word "ребята" to themselves it is like they are long-term friends, from childhood, who are used to refer to themselves as "ребята". Usually it is sign of strong and long-lasting friendship.

They were not preteens or children - They were, at least, in their prime youth (20s).
The poem/epitaph was made in 1989 by hikers wo wanted to pay a tribute. So we can talk about companions of a sport modality as you referred as "long-time friends". So, it can it be colleagues or buddies?
Thank you Alex80.

Originally Posted by Alex80

"Ребята" primary meaning is "children". Form "Ребятишки" means more clearly "pre-teenagers".
Children can use "ребята" to refer to themselves.

If adults apply word "ребята" to themselves it is like they are long-term friends, from childhood, who are used to refer to themselves as "ребята". Usually it is sign of strong and long-lasting friendship.

Good point. In that sense it's NOT always a good translation of English "guys" -- which can certainly be used to address a group of strangers in a casual way (especially if they're not older than you and the group is mostly male):

"Excuse me, guys, do any of you know if there's a Chinese restaurant called Lucky Panda Garden around here?"

(Personally, I wouldn't say this to a group of men my dad's age -- I'd choose ONE of them and say, "Excuse me, sir...")

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

And ironically enough, the noun душа ("the immortal human soul") is treated as неодушевлённое ("grammatically inanimate") -- not just here, but in general.

I was wondering in russian креветки are treated also as неодушевлённое
Example:
1. In the bar I saw those girls = В баре я видел этих девушек (Genetive)
1. In Africa I saw lions = В Африке я видел львов (Genetive)
1. When I was swimming I saw shrimps = Когда я плавал я видел креветки или креветок
1. In the restaurant I ate shrimps = В ресторане я покушал креветки или креветок

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

I was wondering in russian креветки are treated also as неодушевлённое
1. When I was swimming I saw shrimps = Когда я плавал я видел креветки или креветок
2. In the restaurant I ate shrimps = В ресторане я покушал креветки или креветок

Викисловарь says that креветка is animate -- and therefore the accusative plural is креветок, like the genitive.

But it seems to me there might be a complication: because of their small size, I would tend to guess that shrimp are treated as a "mass noun" (like изюм, "a pile of raisins"), rather than a "count noun" (like арбуз, "a watermelon"). And from Googling, it seems that LIVE shrimp are "count," but COOKED shrimp are "mass". Thus, in the context of eating in a seafood restaurant:

В ресторане я покушал креветку.
--- At the restaurant, I ate (a big pile of many) shrimp. (NOT "exactly one individual shrimp").

В ресторане я покушал креветки, потом попросил у официанта, "Можно «doggy bag», чтобы взять остатки с собой?"
--- At the restaurant, I ate some (of the big pile of many) shrimp, then asked the waiter, "Can I have a «doggy bag» to take the leftovers with me?"

In the second sentence, креветки isn't an "inanimate accusative plural"; it's a "genitive singular" that expresses a partitive meaning.

But in the context of countable living shrimp:

На море я пытался ловить креветок, а в конце концов я поймал лишь одну креветку.
--- At the seashore I tried to catch shrimp (anim. acc. pl.), but in the end, I caught only one shrimp (acc. sg.).

P.S. In English, we'd generally use the plural "shrimps" only when discussing different species. Otherwise, it's a "mass noun" only, whether they're alive or cooked.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Викисловарь says that креветка is animate -- and therefore the accusative plural is креветок, like the genitive.

But it seems to me there might be a complication: because of their small size, I would tend to guess that shrimp are treated as a "mass noun" (like изюм, "a pile of raisins"), rather than a "count noun" (like арбуз, "a watermelon"). And from Googling, it seems that LIVE shrimp are "count," but COOKED shrimp are "mass". Thus, in the context of eating in a seafood restaurant:

It is indeed complicated.
But the explanation was perfect.
I just thought that from the time shrimps were cooked they cannot be considered any more animate, for this reason we say "В ресторане я покушал креветки" and not креветок, but as you correctly pointed: "it's a "genitive singular" that expresses a partitive meaning."
Throbert McGee if you are not Russian, I cannot believe that you learned Russian so well as a foreigner.
It is impossible!

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I would tend to guess that shrimp are treated as a "mass noun" (like изюм, "a pile of raisins"), rather than a "count noun" (like арбуз, "a watermelon"). And from Googling, it seems that LIVE shrimp are "count," but COOKED shrimp are "mass". Thus, in the context of eating in a seafood restaurant:

No. That’s true for рыба, but not for креветка.
Креветки are usually plural. They can be either animate or inanimate — both variants are OK.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

В ресторане я покушал креветку.
--- At the restaurant, I ate (a big pile of many) shrimp. (NOT "exactly one individual shrimp").

Incorrect. Креветку here can mean ‘a single shrimp’ only.
Should be «В ресторане я покушал креветки» (inanim. pl. acc) or «…креветок» (anim. pl. acc. or pl. gen.)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

В ресторане я покушал креветки, потом попросил у официанта, "Можно «doggy bag», чтобы взять остатки с собой?"
--- At the restaurant, I ate some (of the big pile of many) shrimp, then asked the waiter, "Can I have a «doggy bag» to take the leftovers with me?"

Actually, this sentence doesn’t differ from the previous one.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

На море я пытался ловить креветок, а в конце концов я поймал лишь одну креветку.
--- At the seashore I tried to catch shrimp (anim. acc. pl.), but in the end, I caught only one shrimp (acc. sg.).

OK here.

Thank you, soft sign!

Originally Posted by Soft sign

No. That’s true for рыба, but not for креветка.
Креветки are usually plural. They can be either animate or inanimate — both variants are OK.

Блин, йа креведко!

Krivetko.jpg

jacksparrow_krivetko.jpg

cthulhu_krevedko.jpg

Just in case you've never seen this Ru.net meme, the deliberately misspelled "Йа креветко!" could be translated something like "D'oh, I is such a stoopid shremp!" (Meaning, basically, "Извини, я не в курсе" -- "Sorry, I'm not up to speed; I don't understand the situation/discussion.")

And the phrase is very often seen together with two other memes: parodies of Lovecraft's "Cthulhu", and "Preved Medved!!", as in the third image.

Er, thank you guys for addressing and discussing around my thread, but I am still clueless. So, can I interpret the "Children" as colleagues or buddies? The people who build the epitaph didn't knew the hikers - They were only companions in sports, no long-time buddies. Can we exchange the word "Sons" to a better subtle term? Thanks.