Thread: I need to know conjoining words

how is it diffrent?

what is the differnce between the letter for sh and sch?and how would they be used.

I have the russian language installed but I cant put the symbols displayed correctally when I type here...

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by waxwing

Originally Posted by TATY

Can you say Как ты?

Most assuredly you can.

Jared would be spelt Джэрад.
You may say why use Э instead of A? It's because the Э is actually closer to the American English sound man, pan. Russian A is too open for these sounds. E.g. Джарад would aound like Jar-rаd.

I don't agree at all about that. э is a much better transcription of e as in "bed" or "Jared" than the Russian "а", therefore I prefer Джарэд to Джэрад. They will both be wrong, because as you mentioned, the first vowel phoneme will not be rendered correctly, but the former option will be much better.
The Russians have no easy way of producing our "a" in pan and man, but э certainly isn't the solution to that problem. джеред is another option - perhaps you meant that. But no easy answer.

I say Jared (Ja-rudd) The u = the u in put, foot. Thus i use Russian a. Pizza Hut is transliterated as Хат.
I am British, this is how we say it. The e in Jared isn't pronounced the same as that in bed and red, not even by Americans.
Джерад sounds the same as Джэрад anyway, because Ж is hard. So i conclude that my transliteration is Джерад. Or if you want to transliterate for the Irish pronounciation: Джаард

Э is the standard way of transliterating the vowel in pan and man.
E.g. the Russian word Бизнесмэн = Buissnessman. Batman is Бэтмэн or something.
The name Andrew is often written. Эндру
If you want to put on a Russian accent when speaking English. for Pan, and Man, say пэн мэн

OK first about the 'u' part.
What you say is very confused. Firstly, I am almost sure that when you say you use the 'u' in 'put' in Jared, it's not the case. You almost certainly use a 'schwa', which is subtly different (but close in some accents). The schwa is the classic reduced vowel sound in English, for example if you say "Can I ..." with can spoken quickly, it's not an 'a' sound at all, but a schwa.
Secondly, the 'u' in Hut is an entirely different phoneme (sound) to the 'u' in put. Note I'm particularly talking about British English here. The 'u' in Hut is also extremely problematic for Russians, and I accept that the Russian 'a' is as good a solution to that problem as anything else.
I am also British, and I think I could easily pronounce the 'e' in Jared like 'bed'. Of course, it's not an English name, and that's an important point. But nevertheless the rest of what you say has a lot of validity. Because the name is stressed on the first syllable (right?), the second syllable is likely to be reduced. This could either result in a schwa or a short 'i' sound depending on your preference.
Now about the last point - you're right, I was wrong, in as much as Russians do use э for 'a' as in 'pan' and 'man'. I had just forgotten that they often prefer this, although both options of course are inadequate.

Believe me, you don't need to tell me what Russian accented English sounds like, I heard nothing else all last year

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by Pravit

J in french sounds like Ж

The French "j" actually sounds much softer. Compare "j'aime", "живу".

Yes, that's why I said sound like, not "sounds the same as".

The fact is, and I'm sure you'll agree Pravit, that for an the name Jared in English, you wouldn't spell it with a Ж but with a Дж.

Иосеб Джугашвили - Ioseb Jugashvili. The Georgian language has a similar J sound to English. Thus, when Russians write Georgian names with this J sound, they write Дж.

You are probably right in that the English J is transliterated more frequently as Дж in Russian. I noticed Michael Jackson is spelled Майкла Джексона.
But when I read it and say it in my head, it sounds very weird.
The same goes with Джордж Буш.

I typed Jared in Rambler slovari and it came back as Джеред or Джаред so these are the "proper" translations.

But I still think Жарэд sounds rather cool.

Майкла Джексона. - this probably sounded weird to you because its in accustive/genitive case.

Майкл Джексон- nominative

Originally Posted by drew881

Майкла Джексона. - this probably sounded weird to you because its in accustive/genitive case.

Майкл Джексон- nominative

Ah yes. It sounds a little better.

Who's pronuncuation of Jared are you trying to translit?

If I say джаред, it sounds exactly the same as when I say Jared.

But if I put on a horrible whiney yank accent then Jared sounds more like джэред.

Who's "Jared" is right? Why, the person it belongs to of course!

It's really very simple. Say your name out loud, then look at the cyrillic alphabet, and pick the letters that allow you to make the sound closest to what you just said. How you happen to spell your name with latin letters is totally irrelevant.

Originally Posted by scotcher

It's really very simple. Say your name out loud, then look at the cyrillic alphabet, and pick the letters that allow you to make the sound closest to what you just said. How you happen to spell your name with latin letters is totally irrelevant.

And that's exactly why I always try to insist on the term transcription, not transliteration, although no one ever takes any notice. They are completely different things.

And it's not actually as quite simple as that, it's a matter of custom as much as anything else, in these cases where no Cyrillic letter is quite right. You can buck the trend, but it seems a bit pointless.
This problem arises because there is no currently available objective measure of phoneme closeness (or is there?). Maybe if you could decide how many degrees of freedom there are in human sound production, you could take the square root of the sum of the squared deviations across all the dimensions .. umm .. see what I mean?
And then with accents it just gets more complicated, although for some reason I've never understood, there's much less deviation in Russian vowel sounds than in English ones.

Originally Posted by waxwing

Originally Posted by scotcher

It's really very simple. Say your name out loud, then look at the cyrillic alphabet, and pick the letters that allow you to make the sound closest to what you just said. How you happen to spell your name with latin letters is totally irrelevant.

And that's exactly why I always try to insist on the term transcription, not transliteration, although no one ever takes any notice. They are completely different things.

Yeah fair enough, my bad, though the precise definition isn't really central to the point I was making.

And it's not actually as quite simple as that, it's a matter of custom as much as anything else, in these cases where no Cyrillic letter is quite right. You can buck the trend, but it seems a bit pointless.

Of couse it's as simple as that. Transcibe ( ) the name so that it matches the English pronunciation you use. Bollocks to custom or convention, you're the one who's going to have to live with it.

Since, as you say, there is no hard-and-fast way of defining a 'correct' English pronunciation in the first place, what's the point in worrying about how to transcribe it 'correctly'? If you pronounce it джаред the transcribe it джаред, if you pronounce it джэред then trabscribe it as джэред. If you happen to be French and you pronounce it as жаред then transcribe it as жаред. No-one can tell you that you're wrong, since the name doesn't exist in Russian, and there is no standard way of accurately transcribing English words into Russian, but there are definite vaules associated with the Russian letters.

Hell, it's not even like Russians all use the same system. My current passport has 6 russian visas in it, all issued at the same consulate, and they contain 4 different cyrillic spellings of my name!

But who cares? I certainly don't. If I have to transcribe my name I just transcribe it so that a Russian will pronounce it like I do (or as close as possible). It's no skin off my ass if anyone else gets it 'wrong'.

This problem arises because there is no currently available objective measure of phoneme closeness (or is there?). Maybe if you could decide how many degrees of freedom there are in human sound production, you could take the square root of the sum of the squared deviations across all the dimensions .. umm .. see what I mean?
And then with accents it just gets more complicated, although for some reason I've never understood, there's much less deviation in Russian vowel sounds than in English ones.

Absolutely agree. The range of different pronunciation in English is so vast, what amazes me is that we can all correctly identify them at all. So long as the grammar and vocabulary match up, someone from Alabama can talk quite effortlessly with someone from Swansea, in spite of the fact that the individual sounds each of them use to represent any given phoneme have almost nothing in common.

how is SH differnt?

PS how do you type russian? I installed the language pack thing and It works perfectally on the microsoft word.

but for some reason it wont type the symbols correctally on this website?

here is an example
9FC:5=

here is what ists soposed to be
йцукен
i coppied the thing from word.

is this correct?
Он=HE
сказал,SAID?
что=WHAT
живёт lived?
в=IN/TO
городе.City?

Он сказал что живёт в городе.
He said that (he) lives in (a) city.

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

here is what ists soposed to be
йцукен
i coppied the thing from word.

What is йцукен?

If you know what qwerty is , then you know what йцукен is

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

is this correct?
Он=HE
сказал,SAID?
что=WHAT
живёт lived?
в=IN/TO
городе.City?

You
shouldn't
learn
things
like
this.

You should learn a simple sentence, and then build to more complex ones.

Originally Posted by kwatts59

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

here is what ists soposed to be
йцукен
i coppied the thing from word.

What is йцукен?

Its a Ukrainian dragon.

BIG TRANSLATION
Мы
снова
эфире !
Огромное
спасибо
тем
кто
зае
ал
меня
своими
письмами
с
просьбами
восстановить
сайт.
Приятно !
Итак
обновлённый
улучшеный
перед
вами !
кое
что
добавил
раздел
файлы -
смотрите,
качайте.

Мы we
снова again
эфире air(radio air)
Огромное huge
спасибо thanks
тем No tranlsation
кто who
зае ??
ал ??
меня me
своими by one's own
письмами letters
с with
просьбами requests
восстановить restore
сайт. site
Приятно great
Итак and so
обновлённый updated
улучшеный ??
перед infront of
вами you pl.
кое no translation
что what/that
добавил added
раздел section
файлы - files
смотрите, look
качайте - download, maybe. Or nod (head)

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

улучшеный

I
think
this
means
"to improve "
but
it
is
spelled
wrong.

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

зае ??
ал ??

Shame on you! Have one more try - зае*ал

улучшеный ??

улучшенный
improved

кое no translation
что what/that

it's кое-что

меня заебал = you've bored me / you've made me bored (literally: you f)cked me to an excess)

Sir Krist, can you please just give us the complete sentences instead of breaking them up into single words. Because the complete meaning of words like письмами can't be conveyed otherwise.

im sorry the book I own is confusing, in fact I found it in the garage.
heres a little excerpt from the book it takes time to type especially with a "qwerty" boardso here to all those who wanted a full sentance.

Вот

И было такб,что они веязли
И свяеали,И обжигали ему
кожу еажженными лучинами,
да,на смерть ему