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Thread: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

  1. #1
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    HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Looking for Help to translate ONE word

    I have a Large Brass Pot - Braszer? which has been in the family for 50 years. It had three legs at one time. It is - about 15" wide and 9" high. I have tried three Russian Translation Services and got nothing. I have also looked at all the Cyrillic alphabets in Wikipedia. -------------- I would appreciate any help.

    І БВЪТЧЛП
    I make my comments about the above letters below. The letters are all in capital form, kind of block letter and in a bold I think.

    The Letter ( І ) or mark that is in front of the ( Б ) is not engraved in a bold fashion like the rest of the letters. I am not even sure it is part of the lettering, but it is a mark.

    The other letters are all bold block letters except for the last letter which is thinner and does not have the backward thing at the bottom of the left stem - ВЪТЧЛП. ==== What confused my is the letter that resemble a capital Y. On the Pot this is a Capital Y that is written like a small case y in capital form. The bottom of the y turns back to the left slightly.

    The next letter the N that the left leg / stem flares out to the right. - On the pot both leg / stems go straight down. The Left leg / stem - at the bottom turns a a 90 def angle to the left for a short distance ( the width of the bold letter)

    Then the last letter - I cannot find any exact duplicate to it. It is thinner that the letter preceding it. The part of this letter that is different is - the right side of the n has a small hook or if you can imagine it. It looks as if a small r was laid over the right down stem. The result is in the middle of the stem or right leg of the n, a line goes out to the right and then hooks down.

    Someone told me that this was OLD Russian.

    І БВЪТЧЛП

    I was just thinking about my description - what a long description to describe such small things - but it is necessary.

  2. #2
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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    I'm sorry to disappoint you but it doesn't even resemble a word. You just listed a few consonants (not a single vowel in between!), something like BVT'CHLP, and in Russian it has as little sense as in English. The description is detailed and well thought of, but it doesn't really help, because all these "backward things" could be anything depending on the script used.

    Please post a scan or take a photo of whatever has that engraving so we could help.

    EDIT:
    What confused my is the letter that resemble a capital Y. On the Pot this is a Capital Y that is written like a small case y in capital form. The bottom of the y turns back to the left slightly.
    The only thing that seems clear to me is letter "У" (pronounced as "oo" in "book"). So there's a vowel after all.

    AGAIN, POST A PHOTO. I'm intrigued.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    How do I past a jpg from my computer into this screen?????

    I have a very good photo.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Go to google and search for 'image hosting'
    you'll get numerous services that allow hosting of your pictures. Usually it only takes selecting a photo on your disk from the start page of such a service and clicking the button 'upload' or 'host it' or whatever.
    Then you'll be provided with the URL (address) of the hosted image.
    Just put it in the message body and enclose it in the tags.
    Usually hosting services provide it already with BBCODE so all you have to do is copy and paste it into the message body.

    As for your question - I think that if it indeed the old russian letters then you typed it wrong.
    Maybe posting the photo you mentioned would clear this out.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Go to google and search for 'image hosting'
    you can use this one: http://www.imageshack.us/

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    The script can be Bolgarian or Serbian.
    Я так думаю.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Go to google and search for 'image hosting'
    you can use this one: http://www.imageshack.us/
    the slowest of all available.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN



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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Thanks very much for the help. It took me a little while.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Б. ВЪ ТУЛЂ

    It means B. In Tula. Apparently, it is only a part of the original text. It probably used to say something like "Made by the factory of <some initials> B. in Tula"

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    The inscription looks as if it is worn down on both sides, so the first letter might be "A".

    A Large Brass Pot made in Tula - samovar?

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Quote Originally Posted by E-learner
    A Large Brass Pot made in Tula - samovar?


    2 CYBORG
    Tula is perhaps best-known as the center of samovar production: the Russian equivalent of "coals to Newcastle" is "You don't take a samovar to Tula."
    Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tula,_Russia )

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN




    This is what is looks like. As I said it at one time had three legs. I don't believe it was ever a samovar or part of one. According to Wikipeda Samovar had four legs.

    I think this was hand hammered out a a flat sheet and then shaped after. There is a evidence of a ragged kind of line in the metal from the top to the bottom. It is more evident on the insdie where large black marks are left where this was probably joined.

    The Metal is not extra heavy. However I don't know the practices at that time, but the intended uses are a planter or more likely a pot in which hot coals were placed to heat a room. The lip turns up and would have accommodated a lid.


    I appreciate immensely your help. From what is shown is there any indication of what year is was made?
    It has as I said been in the family since at least 1040. I MADE A MISTAKE I MEANT - 1940.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBORG
    It has as I said been in the family since at least 1040.
    Impossible. The script is far too modern (i'm not an expert, but it looks like 300-400 years old at best), and Tula (under that very name) exists approximately since 14th century, and even then it was just a minor fortress for some time.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Thank You. I did ask if in the mark I posted there was any indication of year.
    I went on many websites after my post of the picture of the Pot. I found out TULA is best known for its Armament industry. Since the early 1700 it has had the reputation for weapons. It still does today.

    I will post most of the site I visited as perhaps there is one that is of interest to someone.
    Http://www.artantique.ru/list-eng.phtml?cat=220

    Info@artantique.ru (email)

    Http://www.russiansamovars.com/spice-bo ... -items.php
    I found a Jewish ritual item very similar in shape and it had a lid, but was also in silver.
    It is called an Esrog box and had the same shape but with four legs

    Http://www.regina-karolyi.de/Samowar_stempel.html
    Halfway down on the page

    Stamp of the Petrov company from Tula: There were two branches bearing this name, one belonged to Yekaterina Ivanovna Petrova, whose branch was founded in 1850, and one to Yekaterina Petrova, founded in 1879 (maybe they were mother and daughter?). I can't tell from viewing the stamp by which of the branches it was used.
    THIS MARK IS VERY, VERY SIMILAR TO MY MARK
    (If you send me an e-mail, please delete "abc" behind the ".de" ending of the address, it's spam protection.)
    Rkarolyi@web.dezusatz

    Http://www.yale.edu/annals/Steinberg/St ... e_page.htm
    The Russian Review
    Http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 1&SRETRY=0

    Tula info detailed information
    Http://www.atljewishtimes.com/archives/ ... 1000cs.htm

    Russian marks
    Http://www.regina-karolyi.de/Samowar_stempel.html

    Http://www.ak47website.com/Articles.php ... 1203321946

    English art antique located in Russia - Prices in Rubles
    http://www.artantique.ru/list-eng.phtml?cat=220


    Http://www.geocities.com/jpotter49505/e ... ovars.html

    V. Seals & Marks

    Seals: Samovar producers generally stamp their name, company hallmark, and exhibition awards on the samovars. Like other state-owned objects d'art, the tsar had his portrait and the double-headed imperial eagle seal stamped on state-owned samovars. Occasionally, seals can be helpful in approximately dating samovars. An excellent photographic illustration of samovar company seals can be found here.

    Award seals for workmanship or artistic ability are helpful in dating samovars. Many seals showcase international exposition awards (such as "London International Universal Exhibition, 1897" or "Exposition Universal, France 1900"). If no dates appear, the most recent czar depicted can provide an approximate date:

    1801-1825 Alexander I
    1825-1855 Nicholas I
    1855-1881 Alexander II
    1881-1894 Alexander III
    1894-1917 Nicholas II

    Marks: The Russian silver standard is recognized by the numbers 84, 88, and 91: zolotniks found per 96 zolotniks (or a pound) of pure silver (gold is similarly represented by 56, 72, and 96). Russian silver generally has 4 marks: the maker's initials or name, the silver-testing city's coat-of-arms, the assayer's initials, and the pure silver proportion as stated above.

    The kokoshnik headdress remains the Russian mark for both gold and silver objects in the twentieth century. Previously, Moscow-made objects had an St.George and Dragon mark. Likewise, St. Petersburg had a double-headed eagle until 1742 when it was replace by the new city arms (scepter with two crossed anchors). Those that have no marks may have either been made in rural workshops or polished off. Finally, samovars bearing a craftsman's mark are more rare than factory-made models.
    VI. Companies
    Batashev, Alexis & Ivan
    Burashev, S.
    Diakov
    Fabrika M.A. Getsova
    Kondrat Dmitrievitch Gornin
    Lisitsin, Ivan
    Lomova, Vasilly
    Lyaliny
    Malikov, Nicholas
    Morozov:
    Shemarin Bros. of Tula
    Sokolov
    Teyle, B.G.
    Vankin, Ye
    Vorontsov, N.A.
    Yermilov, G.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    I MADE A MISTAKE IN A PREVIOUS POST WHEN I SAID IT HAD BEEN IN THE FAMILY SINCE 1040. IT WAS A TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR.

    I INTENDED TO SAY 1940.

    Usually I try to remember to proof read what I type as it is so easy for me, to make a typo. I can type fast, but then my error rate increases. Thanks for pointing that out.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBORG
    I MADE A MISTAKE IN A PREVIOUS POST WHEN I SAID IT HAD BEEN IN THE FAMILY SINCE 1040. IT WAS A TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR.

    I INTENDED TO SAY 1940.
    I can sleep now.
    Correct my mistakes and I will give you +1 internets.

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    Can someone help me translate the markings on a russian samovar? It was my great grandmothers. looks like it was also tula

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    this is the image of the marking...[

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    Re: HELP - ONE WORD OLD RUSSIAN

    It's the prerevolutionary samovar:
    Самоварный
    Фабрикантъ
    ВОРОНЦОВЪ
    ВЪ ТУЛѢ


    In modern Russian:
    Самоварный
    Фабрикант
    ВОРОНЦОВ
    В ТУЛЕ


    It means:
    Samovar factory owner (like Samovar manufacturer)
    VORONTSOV (surname of the factory owner)
    IN TULA


    However I can't make out him initials, maybe А. О., but maybe А. Ѳ.

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