Thread: "Related" Languages (Tartar, Polish, etc)

Can someone at least give a brief summary of all the Cyrillic above?

Невена:

Очень интересно -- hvala!

Один вопрос: Сейчас латинский алфавит больше используют? Если так, есть опастность что кириллический когда-нибудь умрет?

Nevena
Very interesting -- hvala
One question: Do they use the latin alphabet more now? If so, is there danger that one day cyrillic will die out.

нету опасности никакой ИМХО
даже вся Украина предпочитает говорить по-русски. Wink

There is no danger IMHO
Even all Ukraine prefers to speak Russian.

Не думаю, что кириллица будет полностью вытеснена латиницей. В конце концов она лучше отображает фонетический строй языка. Я вообще не представляю, как без слез можно писать латиницей по русски/украински/белорусски. Smile

I don't think that cyrillic will ever be completely replaced by latin. At the end of the day it better shows the fonetic structure of the language (something like that). I can't imagine at all that it's possible to write latin in Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian without tears.


I might have misinterpreted something but that'll give you an idea of о чём шла речь.

Many thanks, Senor Trash

I'd call him 'bin'!

Thank you, Nevena. That brings back my grad school days. I did not quite understand your explanation of the alphabets, but I think the reason for the two alphabets is that the Croats became Catholics and fell under the sway of Rome, and so adopted the Latin alphabet, where the Serbs stayed true to Orthodoxy, and so kept the Cyrillic. Isn't this is the cause of all the animosity between Serbs and Croats today?

Originally Posted by chaika

Thank you, Nevena. That brings back my grad school days. I did not quite understand your explanation of the alphabets, but I think the reason for the two alphabets is that the Croats became Catholics and fell under the sway of Rome, and so adopted the Latin alphabet, where the Serbs stayed true to Orthodoxy, and so kept the Cyrillic. Isn't this is the cause of all the animosity between Serbs and Croats today?

According to her explanation, if I understood it correctly, she didn't really deal with this; all she really said was that in the mid-1800s the Austrians encouraged reforms that further differentiated the languages, thus making them harder for one another to understand (and of course, driving Russians/Serbians a bit further apart b/c of a linguistic divide).

I should clarify, though, by earlier question -- I wasn't asking if Cyrillic is going to die out completely -- only in Serbia, where I understand that Latin is becoming more prevalent -- that's all. I don't think Russian is going латинский anytime soon (and that's a good thing!).

Cyrillic will not die in Serbian language. In that case, Serbian people would lost the big part of national culture. That is impossible , we won't let this happened.
Cause of all the animosity between Serbs and Croats are historical, not from today....There are many reasons.......Important is knowledge of history....
Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFR Yugoslavia) was pacific, free, independent country, a founding member of the UN and well recognised world wide including its recognition by French Republic, Federal Republic of Germany (FR Germany), United States of America, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and all other NATO state members.

The Serbs were one of the two constitutive peoples of the S. R. Croatia ("The basic principles": Article 1 of the Constitution of S. R. Croatia). As such, they decided freely by referendum (with the majority exceeding 80 %) not to separate from SFR Yugoslavia.

The S. R. Croatia changed its Constitution by ignoring and neglecting completely the constitutional rights of the Serbs.

Republics of Slovenia and of Croatia decided to separate anti-constitutionally from SFR Yugoslavia.

Such change of the Croatian Constitution, the separatist Croatian decision, and the Croatian Government ignorance of the result of the Serbian referendum forced the Serbs to remind themselves of the fascist crimes committed against their parents, cousins and friends by HITLER protected Independent State of Croatia that massacred about eight hundred thousands of innocent Jewish, Rome and Serbs in one of many camps - in Yasenovats, more than 80% of whom were Serbs (1941 - 1945).

Republic of Croatia justified and approved the fear of the Serbs by expelling several hundred thousands of Serbs from their Parentland (1995). Occidental reactions were only favourable.

I speak Polish, and I'm learning Russian.
I'd say that they are certainly some similarities, which might make learning both of these a bit easier. Then again, there are also some confusing vocaubluraly differences. my favourite example of that, word that sounds prctically the same in both languages, only in polish it means 'remember', and in russian 'forget'
And is Polish phonetics really that hard? I wouldn't say so myself, then again, I'm a native, so it doesn't really count.

Whoever said "Tatar is like Russian" needs their eyes testing.

Yes it is written in Cyrillic, but that's it. Really this kind of ignorance in linguistics drives me crazy.

Originally Posted by Невена

Cyrillic will not die in Serbian language. In that case, Serbian people would lost the big part of national culture. That is impossible , we won't let this happened.
Cause of all the animosity between Serbs and Croats are historical, not from today....There are many reasons.......Important is knowledge of history....
Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFR Yugoslavia) was pacific, free, independent country, a founding member of the UN and well recognised world wide including its recognition by French Republic, Federal Republic of Germany (FR Germany), United States of America, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and all other NATO state members.

The Serbs were one of the two constitutive peoples of the S. R. Croatia ("The basic principles": Article 1 of the Constitution of S. R. Croatia). As such, they decided freely by referendum (with the majority exceeding 80 %) not to separate from SFR Yugoslavia.

The S. R. Croatia changed its Constitution by ignoring and neglecting completely the constitutional rights of the Serbs.

Republics of Slovenia and of Croatia decided to separate anti-constitutionally from SFR Yugoslavia.

Such change of the Croatian Constitution, the separatist Croatian decision, and the Croatian Government ignorance of the result of the Serbian referendum forced the Serbs to remind themselves of the fascist crimes committed against their parents, cousins and friends by HITLER protected Independent State of Croatia that massacred about eight hundred thousands of innocent Jewish, Rome and Serbs in one of many camps - in Yasenovats, more than 80% of whom were Serbs (1941 - 1945).

Republic of Croatia justified and approved the fear of the Serbs by expelling several hundred thousands of Serbs from their Parentland (1995). Occidental reactions were only favourable.

Enough with your anti-Croatin bull! It's not the 90s anymore. Move on.

Originally Posted by TATY

Whoever said "Tatar is like Russian" needs their eyes testing.

Yes it is written in Cyrillic, but that's it. Really this kind of ignorance in linguistics drives me crazy.

This is my own ignorance. I speak only English fluently, and all I know of Russian is most of the alphabet. I think my ignorance is excusable.

Originally Posted by Doc Faustus

Originally Posted by TATY

Whoever said "Tatar is like Russian" needs their eyes testing.

Yes it is written in Cyrillic, but that's it. Really this kind of ignorance in linguistics drives me crazy.

This is my own ignorance. I speak only English fluently, and all I know of Russian is most of the alphabet. I think my ignorance is excusable.

No it's not. I only speak English fluently. Even before I knew Russian I knew it was a Slavic language, and what the Slavic languages were, also also that Tatar is Turkic. Basically my grasp of linguistics was slightly more advanced than "it's got the same alphabet so it's similar".

How similar is English to Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian, Turkish?

BTW, I've been to Tatarstan, and the Tatar 'government' voted to revert to the Latin alphabet. When I was there the new road signs were in Cyrillic Russian and Latin Tatar. I'm sure I even saw Cyrillic Russian, Cyrillic Tatar, Latin Tatar.

No it's not. I only speak English fluently. Even before I knew Russian I knew it was a Slavic language, and what the Slavic languages were, also also that Tatar is Turkic. Basically my grasp of linguistics was slightly more advanced than "it's got the same alphabet so it's similar".

How similar is English to Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian, Turkish?

BTW, I've been to Tatarstan, and the Tatar 'government' voted to revert to the Latin alphabet. When I was there the new road signs were in Cyrillic Russian and Latin Tatar. I'm sure I even saw Cyrillic Russian, Cyrillic Tatar, Latin Tatar.

I'm sorry we aren't all born with this inbread knowledge of linguistics like you are.

If you don't have anything useful to contribute, please go troll elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Doc Faustus

No it's not. I only speak English fluently. Even before I knew Russian I knew it was a Slavic language, and what the Slavic languages were, also also that Tatar is Turkic. Basically my grasp of linguistics was slightly more advanced than "it's got the same alphabet so it's similar".

How similar is English to Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian, Turkish?

BTW, I've been to Tatarstan, and the Tatar 'government' voted to revert to the Latin alphabet. When I was there the new road signs were in Cyrillic Russian and Latin Tatar. I'm sure I even saw Cyrillic Russian, Cyrillic Tatar, Latin Tatar.

I'm sorry we aren't all born with this inbread knowledge of linguistics like you are.

If you don't have anything useful to contribute, please go troll elsewhere.

It's not inbread.
And it's common sense that Tatar is not related to Russian.

Or if you don't know you do a little research (e.g. Wikipedia).

And talking about Macedonian, it's just a dialect of Bulgarian. Those are some really random languages they are offering. Like offering Macedonian and not Bulgarian is odd.

I learnt some Tatar words when I was there

Water - su
Soup - ash
Selem or something was hello.
Yort - House (I think)
El - year

They're not really random, it's based on two factors: what instructors are availible, and what the Government will give scholarships for. If I wanted, the Gov't would pay for me to go study in Kazan, in exchange for agreeing to work for the Gov't after graduation.

Originally Posted by Doc Faustus

They're not really random, it's based on two factors: what instructors are availible, and what the Government will give scholarships for. If I wanted, the Gov't would pay for me to go study in Kazan, in exchange for agreeing to work for the Gov't after graduation.

Kazan' is lovely BTW:



But best to have a good grip of Russian before you go.

Well, I don't plan on spending the summing in Kazan: I'm studying Russian/E. European History, and the Gov't doesn't have many jobs that fit what I want to do AND make use of Tatar.

The reason I'm looking at it is there is a certificate in Russian and E. European studies that I can earn, and requires a certain number of courses in E. European languages. Taking Tatar means taking fewer hours of Russian (plus a rare skill!)

If somone studies Russian at university for 3 years from scratch as a major, how fluent do you think they will be? Anyone done it?

Originally Posted by basurero

If somone studies Russian at university for 3 years from scratch as a major, how fluent do you think they will be? Anyone done it?

Depends on how good the teaching is.

I am in the British system which focuses more on one particular subject (Russian).

I knew an American girl who coudln't say a single correct sentence in Russian after 3 years.

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by basurero

If somone studies Russian at university for 3 years from scratch as a major, how fluent do you think they will be? Anyone done it?

Depends on how good the teaching is.

I am in the British system which focuses more on one particular subject (Russian).

I knew an American girl who coudln't say a single correct sentence in Russian after 3 years.

What about "я девушка"?