Thread: On mixing languages and discerning Russians

MasterAdmin,

"Even I can tell the difference .... not every time but quite often. "

не за что

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Whenever I fly to Britain the Russian customs officers at Pulkovo Airport address me in English before they see my Russian passport, but this never happens to this English bloke I know - they always take him for a Russian!

Perhaps you look like Austin Powers??

Pravit - Russians and other East Europeans just have a certain look, a particular manner. For one, they have a penchant for wearing darker, more muted colors, especially greys and browns and blacks. They often talk more quietly than Americans do amongst themselves. They carry themselves differently. I dunno - they're just different. At least for recent immigrants this seems to hold true.

Originally Posted by MasterAdmin

Pravit, I can even tell the (physical) difference between Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Probably not every time but quiet often.

It's very easy to do if you're allowed to see what kind of clothes they are wearing, their behaviour/body language, language(obviously). But from physical traits alone(say mug shots) it is actually quite difficult. There are some faces which stand out as obviously Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. but there are many more which are mixed in between the two. It's kind of weird but almost every American/European person I know claims to be able to tell the difference between Asians, when many Asian people(who spend most of their lives living around other Asians) can't. You can try this site: http://www.alllooksame.com/
In my opinion it's not a very good test because the owner of the site intentionally switches around the main identifying features(he has a Chinese guy dressed up in punk clothes and dyed hair and a Japanese guy in very plain clothes) and he has some people making stupid faces, but you do get to see some different faces. The problem is that the Chinese themselves are not all that similar-looking; Northerners look different from Southerners and so on. BTW, as regards what VM said, in Thailand, every single time the people there take me for a Japanese tourist. I'm not kidding. One time at a restaurant they gave me a double helping of sashimi because they thought I was Japanese.

Even I can tell East Europeans from West Europeans, just like I can tell if someone is German, French, Spanish, etc.

Reallllly? Just from facial features alone? There are some faces which strike me as distinctively Russian or German. But I think there are many, many more which are in between. How about Americans? Can you tell which country their ancestors are supposed to have come from?

Pravit - Russians and other East Europeans just have a certain look, a particular manner. For one, they have a penchant for wearing darker, more muted colors, especially greys and browns and blacks. They often talk more quietly than Americans do amongst themselves. They carry themselves differently. I dunno - they're just different. At least for recent immigrants this seems to hold true.

I am aware of this. But can you tell them just from facial features alone? Especially since there are lots of Russians who have names like "Mandelstam" and "Eisenstein"?

I'm at uni right now but when I get to my own computer let's play a little face-identifying game. I get some images from Google images and you tell me the national origin of this person!

Originally Posted by Moryachka

Pravit - Russians and other East Europeans just have a certain look, a particular manner. For one, they have a penchant for wearing darker, more muted colors, especially greys and browns and blacks. They often talk more quietly than Americans do amongst themselves. They carry themselves differently. I dunno - they're just different. At least for recent immigrants this seems to hold true.

During my last visit to Saint-Petersburg I went to see the church of Our Savior on Spilled Blood. I wore light colored jacket and jeans and had an expensive-looking camera hanging on my neck. So when I tried to buy a ticket a билетерша looked at me with suspicion and asked me literally "Русиянин?" . I had to say something in russian to prove my citizenship and be eligible for cheaper tickets.

ha ha DenisM!

Denis, you might look russian, but it doesn't mean you are from russia. She maybe thought you were one of those rich emigrants... wait, that is what you are!!!

Pravit, I can tell american ancestory if it is not mixed, and sometimes even if it is mixed. But, more often than not, we Americans are so ethincally mixed that we look like... Americans!

I can't tell the difference between an Ukranian and a Russian... can Russians/Ukranians?

http://www.freewebs.com/pravit/facegame.htm

Give it your best shot.

I threw in some freebies, but also some where it isn't so clear.

To determine people's ethnicity, you need more than a photograph, you need the real thing. But I think no. 24 is Pravit and I wish no. 37 was my girlfriend

Originally Posted by Pravit

. One time at a restaurant they gave me a double helping of sashimi because they thought I was Japanese.

Are you sure that was the reason? I used to get free drinks at this disco in Italy all the time. If I ordered a beer I would get at least four or five handed to me. If I ordered a shot I would get threequarters of a tumbler full. I never knew why for the longest time. It turned out that the bartender was gay. I showed up with a French girl one night and that was the end free drinks and any type of service at all that place.

Are you not kind of missing the point here? Is how two expat Russians go about recognising each other really pertanent to the question of what Rusklish slang they use once they've done so?

Originally Posted by Pravit

http://www.freewebs.com/pravit/facegame.htmGive it your best shot.

Easy peasy. 3, 4, 8, 12, 28, 30, 32, 42 - Buryats, the others look Ukranian to me.

Are you not kind of missing the point here? Is how two expat Russians go about recognising each other really pertanent to the question of what Rusklish slang they use once they've done so?

I believe MasterAdmin split the thread; the slang one is still in "Grammar and Vocabulary."

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

To determine people's ethnicity, you need more than a photograph, you need the real thing. But I think no. 24 is Pravit and I wish no. 37 was my girlfriend

Hold on here. If you need more than a photo, I'm guessing you need to be able to watch their behaviour, listen to them talk, clothing etc. However, you said you were able to tell American ancestry. In this situation, you have only the face and other physical features to go by, since it is assumed that Americans who have German ancestors do not speak with German accents or do German things. So you should be able to tell the national origin of most of these people I listed.

Yes, I split the thread because it diverged from the original topic beginning from the third post. Original topic is here:
http://masterrussian.net/mforum/viewtopic.php?t=4649

Originally Posted by Pravit

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

To determine people's ethnicity, you need more than a photograph, you need the real thing. But I think no. 24 is Pravit and I wish no. 37 was my girlfriend

Hold on here. If you need more than a photo, I'm guessing you need to be able to watch their behaviour, listen to them talk, clothing etc. However, you said you were able to tell American ancestry. In this situation, you have only the face and other physical features to go by, since it is assumed that Americans who have German ancestors do not speak with German accents or do German things. So you should be able to tell the national origin of most of these people I listed.

I usually can tell (guess, rather) the ancestry if they are not mixed, some of these look mixed... and it is easier to guess if you have a profile picture. I need to see the person, not just a 2d replication of the persons face. Ok, I will give it a shot. You know the answers yourself? I am guessing ethinicty not nationality.

1. Mix
2. Turkish...
3. Thai
4. Phillipino
5. Too old
6. Jewish
7. French?
8. Japanese
9. Thai/ Malay
10. British?
11. Gypsie
12. Chinese
13. Mix
14. Mix
15. British
16. Scandinavian
17. Scandinavian
18. Egyptian
19. Slavic (Ukranian?)
20. germanic
21. scandinavian
22. Mix
23. Slavic
24. Too old
25. Too old
26. Mix?
27. French?
28. Viatnamese?
29. Mix
30. Chinese
31. Slavic (Pole?)
32. Thai
33. Germanic?
34. Chinese (maybe Japo)
35. Mix
36. French?
37. Mix
38. too old
39. too old
40. Arab
41. Mexican
42. Mix

Man, I probably sucked at this!

You better have their ethinical background info, or I just wasted half an hour of my life!

Kalinka, you just made my day! I did spend a lot of time putting that together. The way I found these photos was to search for common names in the target languages - I believe most of the Russians on there are surnamed Иванов or Петров. I took a look at the site to make sure it really was their name, then took the pic. Of course, it's quite possible that they're mixed ethnicity regardless of the name, but what can you do. There are a wide range of faces which can be classified as "Russian" anyway, I noticed - ranging from blondish-looking Scandinavians to dark-haired Mediterranean looks.

The key you can find here, since noone else attempted it
[]

As for me, I thought numbers 15, 7, 34, and 35 were rather typical faces for their respective ethnic origins(besides the obvious ones, like numbers 8 and 23). But this is coming from someone who knew their ethnic background beforehand, of course.

What does this prove? OK, so I missed most of them, but that I got any, really beats the odds. So it can't just be luck!!

Well, ok, I guess it can...

It doesn't prove anything, I was just curious if people really had the ability to tell ethnicity from facial features alone. I was also curious if putting the pictures in a particular order, or including more than one face of a particular ethnicity would influence the results. Perhaps you would do better in real life. But thanks for taking the test.

For test 2:
Since 42 pictures seems too long for most people to try, how about another one, for the Russians: can you tell which ones are Russian?

About distinguishing ethnicity from mug shots alone; The demeanor and emotion a person has had all their lives show on the lines in their faces. The wrinkles are obviously different between someone who has been a happy-go-lucky person all their life, and someone who is dark and moody. There's all sorts of personalities withing an ethnicity, but there is a general demeanor typical to different cultures. And the eyes are extremely accurate at picking up facial lines that we aren't even aware of.
Even though Eastern Europe shares a history together, each country experiences that history from a different angle. For example, a Lithuanian may carry a slight weariness when he meets an Eastern European person. By weariness, I'm refering to a suspicion of Russians, bred from previous generations in Lithuania, even beyond his own awareness. And this will be picked up by the Russian, so the Russian will know he's not Russian. And, the Lithuanian will sense the lack of weariness and know the other person is Russian. It doesn't mean they're racist, but have just been brought up with a certain emotional conditioning which will show on their expression. And, if one is intune with it, even a still-shot photo may be enough to tip-off someone as to their region of upbringing. Or more specifically, they'll pick up on the emotional conditioning common to that region. Therfore, the wrinkle and lines common to that region's people.

I myself can't really tell unless it is obvious. The lines in our faces, and our eyes' millenia of training at detecting these lines, are so detailed that it's not merely 'smile vs frown' that we pick up. There are occassionally photos where I know the person isn't Yugoslav, but is Russian. But for me, most of it would be guess work.

I'm actually deliberately trying to hone my skills at detecting Mandarin Chinese speakers, as I don't want to address a Vietnamese or Cantonese speaker in Mandarin. I'd initially thought that Cantonese people were more hardened looking, and Mandarin people more clean cut. But, I don't think that's true now. But, I suspect there is culture in their faces that tell a different story from one another. I've not put my Mandarin into practice to see a certifyable pattern yet. But, they may be able to tell each other apart. I know at least, there are two different physical types within China. Some look halfway toward Korean and Japanese, whereas others look like Vietnamese people.
But of course, there are always plenty and plenty of people who break any mould. It's certainly not just the ethnic body and features that give the queues. The still picture can capture tell-tale signs of a lifetime's expression. But, I wouldn't bank on just anyone knowing from just a photo. You'd have to be pretty queued in to get the non-stereotypical mug-shots all correct. I'd be no Sherlock at it.

EDIT: Actually, I can tell from photos if someone's been brought up in my area. And what's more, many people from my high-school do have mug-shots.

I have noticed that there is similarity in the facial bone structures, in many instances between Aussie men compared to American men. I did not notice it growing up but it is certainly apparent to me now. I know of one woman, who after coming to the USA remarked that Australian men were much more handsome than American men and was rather disappointed.( That’s right boys, read them and weep.) The good news for all you Yanks is that she has since grown accustomed to Americans and has now reversed her opinion. To deny that there are people who live in certain regions having a certain “look” is to be very unobservant. But of course Pravit knows this that is why he has posted an aptitude test for finding recruits for his boss.