Thread: Literature Talk: Russian & Non -Discuss/Review/Q&As

Originally Posted by translationsnmru

...Oh, no, ma'am, this toy is no good, please show me another one....Do you get the idea? .

I love this forum!

Yes, you have once again proven how talented you Russian's are and how high your standards are as well (and your great sense of humor too).

I have mentioned previously how you make me feel so undereducated around all of you. I look at the writings in what I mistakenly thought was the makings of a book and I see my words no longer through rose colored glasses. I judge them more harshly when I reread them. I think to myself "What would the Russian's think of this if they were to read this?" and I know that I must change the words I am using. My words are not good enough. I must admit, have not written in months. It is not that I am blaming or complaining. You all are pushing me and showing me that I need to be better, that I can be better.

The same goes for my girls and their writing. Sometimes I show them the things you all write on this forum. How you describe things and how vivid the detail is that you give. It is like seeing the world for the first time, as if we have never had any senses before. All of your unfathomable metaphors and similes you dream up, put us to shame.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

You said you liked it; however, was it as good as all that and as the same reviewer wrote, "Stephen King would probably turn green at some of these scenes,"?

Yes, it was one of the best books I read in recent times. And indeed, some of the scenes, especially those about the protagonist's treatment in hospital, are very drastic - in the way that there are many people who have no problems with limbs flying everywhere in a movie but cringe at the very thought of a syringe. It's not because it is over-the-top violence, but that it's a treatment which is supposed to make you better. Torture that's actually for your own good.

Robin

I believe that poetry is intranslatable in principle. I mean any kind of poetry. I think even that it is a good definition for the term "poetry": poetry is what can never be translated to another language.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I believe that poetry is intranslatable in principle. I mean any kind of poetry. I think even that it is a good definition for the term "poetry": poetry is what can never be translated to another language.

I'd say I agree with this. The exception could be languages that are very closely related.

Even if you know a language very well - natively - it still doesn't stir up the same emotions as if you heard the poem in your mother tongue.

Intresting to read the comments by translationsMRU - since you are in a position judge the quality of the translation against the original. I just skimmed the poem earlier, but like you said: It's not a good translation and it probably does not do Maykovsky justice.

@Rockzmom - you've got an ace talent though, so dont' worry! You are a natural born film critic with a very sharp eye for details. I for one have been really impressed by your reviews of Russian films.

Sorry I didn't use the English transliteration of the name earlier - I'll start being careful about checking the English transliteration of the Russian names.

The next generation is learning about Russia in "The 39 Clues, The Black Circle," by Patrick Carman.

For those of you not up on youth literature, The 39 Clues series was started by Scholastic Books and the books are designed to teach history. The series also combines online gaming and card collecting. This is all away to get kids invovled in the series, reading and to make it fun by being interactive. There are even prizes that can be won.

The first book in the series was written by the famous youth/teen author Rick Riordan who wrote the Percy Jackson series (the first book soon to be a major motion picture). The rest of the books are written by other authors so that new books in the series can be released quickly.

Both of my girls have been reading this series and they picked up book five tonight and came rushing in the door to excitedly inform me that it takes place in RUSSIA!!! The first clue in the book is the inside cover as it has a coat of arms and the following is written on it, Рэмэмбэр Мадэлэинэ. The plot of the book is for the characters (children) to go deep into Russia and uncover the truth behind the murder of the last Russian royal family.

So, as soon as my girls finish this book, I will read it and then let you all know what the three of us think and how Russian's are portrayed. I am hoping this is a NEW start for our youth and I do like how they have used the Cyrillic alphabet for the clues! (yes, I typed out the clue and translated it for my girls... it took me forever to hunt and peck on my keyboard for the right letters as I NEVER type with the Cyrillic font, I just cut and paste. )

The Hunger Games/ГОЛОДНЫЕ ИГРЫ (see below), by Suzanne Collins was released on September 14, 2008 and quietly sat on shelves until...

Originally Posted by Stephen King

"The Hunger Games is a violent, jarring, speed-rap of a novel that generates nearly constant suspense...I couldn't stop reading. ... is as addictive (and as violently simple) as playing one of those shoot-it-if-it-moves videogames in the lobby of the local eightplex; you know it's not real, but you keep plugging in quarters anyway."

Originally Posted by Stephenie Meyer, author of The Twilight Saga

I was so obsessed with this book I had to take it with me out to dinner and hide it under the edge of the table so I wouldn't have to stop reading. The story kept me up for several nights in a row, because even after I was finished, I just lay in bed wide awake thinking about it...The Hunger Games is amazing."

Originally Posted by Rick Riordan, author of The Percy Jackson Series and The 39 Clues

The Hunger Games is as close to perfect an adventure novel as I've ever read. I could not put it down. Collins has transformed the ancient Labyrinth myth into a terrifyingly believable tale of future America. Readers will be hungry for more."

Now, it is in 26 languages and the rights to make a movie for the novel have been snapped up and there is an PRG game of it as well.

Collins was smart as she released the first chapter of her book online. One could go online and legally, read it and then be hooked! That is exactly what happened to us. I started to read it aloud to older daughter. At first she was like, blah, blah, blah...but then all of a sudden, part way into the chapter, she was like, "No mom! don't stop!" and then once the chapter ended, she demanded that we go out and purchase the book that night!

This SciFi book is really a more grown-up young adult book. I was surprised it was even a young adult book as the concepts it deals with have mature thoughts. This book has themes that hopefully, makes kids think as they read. At least my kid did because we talked about it.

The plot:
The Hunger Games takes place in an unidentified future time period after the destruction of North America, in a nation known as Panem. Panem consists of a rich Capitol and twelve surrounding, poorer districts. As punishment for a previous rebellion against the Capitol, every year one boy and one girl from each district are forced to participate in "The Hunger Games", a televised event whereby the participants, or "tributes", must fight to the death in an outdoor arena until only one remains. The story follows the "games" for that year. From the selection of the tributes, to their preparation, to their actual playing of the game for survial. It has great character development and many twists and turns (some of which can easily be guessed by an adult). The action and storyline does move quickly and it is a page turner!

Collins second book in the series, Catching Fire, is out today, and older daughter has already asked that as soon as she comed home from school we race to the bookstore and purchase it.

I located what I believe is the Russian version of the first chapter of Hunger Games/STARVING GAMES/ГОЛОДНЫЕ ИГРЫ http://www.bakanov.org/samples/Suzanne%20Collins.htm

Let me know if you read this version or if you find the entire book in Russian. Please post a link so others have a chance to read it and practice their Russian and this should be a lower level difficulty of reading, yet a good read. (Is that possible in Russian like in English? Or is it all the same level of difficulty?)

Here is the video teaser (in English)
[video:2z33z7cf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TnxXoMpF3c[/video:2z33z7cf]

I recently read an interesting novel called 'The City and the City' by China Miéville. It's a strange book based on a weird concept. There's a fictional city in a just as fictional Eastern European country, but for reasons which never become quite clear it is actually two cities superimposed over each other. Theirs is both an artificial and a supernatural separation. Physically, a street or a house can be adjacent to one which is politically (and architecturally) situated in the other city; sometimes the border between cities might even segregate flats in a house. The border is one the inhabitants recognize instinctively, it is not obvious. Except for a nexus which is situated at the city center, there is no place where it is allowed to cross from one city into the other, people actually avoid even noticing things in the other city. In fact, it is possible that two cars or pedestrians use the same street but are in different cities, and are therefore supposed not to notice or even interact with each other. The inhabitants have even developed terms such as 'unseeing', 'unnoticing' for the act of consciously ignoring what is going on on the other side of the border.

The somewhat supernatural component is called Breach - it is a force but also a group of people which makes sure that any violation of the border is punished.

This is the backdrop for a crime story with a twist: a woman is found dead in one city, but turns out to have been murdered in the other, which constitutes Breach - or does it?

The novel is pretty kafkaesque in its imagery and concepts. I enjoyed it a lot.

Robin

I just finished watching the movie "The Lady with the Little Dog/Дама с собачкой" and while writing up the review, I found online both the Russian and English versions of this is a short story by Anton Chekhov first published in 1899.

Story in Russian
Story in English

I recently read " the Element of blood ". The book of the modern writer. A genre - a detective. But I read and as has visited Soviet Union. To the truth I have not found in the Internet of an English variant

Originally Posted by bitpicker

I recently read an interesting novel called 'The City and the City' by China Miéville. (...)
The novel is pretty kafkaesque in its imagery and concepts. I enjoyed it a lot.

Great to get such a good review of a book by Miéville. I haven't read anything by him but I have seen this and several other books by him in the shops.

Sounds like an interesting read.

Has anyone read "The Pearl" by John Steinbeck? If so, please let me know what you thought of it. Thanks!

Here it is In Russian.

Интересно. Такие сюжеты уже описывались не раз. Но... всегда трогает душу.
А по стилистике, такое впечатление, что в конце писал совсем другой человек.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Has anyone read "The Pearl" by John Steinbeck? If so, please let me know what you thought of it. Thanks!

Unfortunately not yet . But thanks for pointing this one, now it's in my "top ten I'm planning to read first". (The easy thing that I have this novel right here on my bookshelf ). I read a couple of Steinbeck's novels and liked them very much. Btw, have you read this one:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Russian_Journal

http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Journa.../dp/0141180196

Originally Posted by Basil77

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Has anyone read "The Pearl" by John Steinbeck? If so, please let me know what you thought of it. Thanks!

Unfortunately not yet . But thanks for pointing this one, now it's in my "top ten I'm planning to read first". (The easy thing that I have this novel right here on my bookshelf ). I read a couple of Steinbeck's novels and liked them very much. Btw, have you read this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Russian_Journal

Actually, I have only read ONE book by Steinbeck and that was "Grapes of Wrath" which I had to read in 11th grade and I was put to sleep by that one.

"The Pearl" has been assigned to older daughter so, as I try to read all the books they are reading, I get to read this one, yippie skippy. Let me know if you decide to bump this up to the top of your top 10 list and we can exchange notes about it!

I did find the movie that was made based upon the novella and Steinbeck himself helped with the script.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9305038327668# It is in Spanish however I found subtitles in English. Maybe you can find some in Russian?


Also, has anyone heard of or had a teacher use the "The Socratic method of teaching" or "Socratic Seminar?"

The Socratic method of teaching is based on Socrates' theory that it is more important to enable students to think for themselves than to merely fill their heads with "right" answers. Therefore, he regularly engaged his pupils in dialogues by responding to their questions with questions, instead of answers. This process encourages divergent thinking rather than convergent.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Also, has anyone heard of or had a teacher use the "The Socratic method of teaching" or "Socratic Seminar?"

Being a student I've attended a quantum mechanics course. The course consisted of lectures, where a professor read us the theory, and seminars, where we, divided in small groups, were practicing in resolving problems. When our seminar's teacher putted a problem situation onto the board we asked "How should we start to solve it?" He responded "Think!" His answer never changed whatever we asked him. Each seminar started with our question and the same teacher's answer. After that we were "thinking" for sometime and there was a silence in the room. Only when somebody of us made an assumption (not a question!) he in return asked us the question "How your assumption can help you to solve the problem?" So step by step our silence intervals became shorter while voices became easily. To the end of the seminar we were about to solve the problem for ourselves.

This type of teaching may be not as like as Socratic method. Our teacher never responded with a question to a question. He always responded with a good answer "Think!" But he really made us to think for ourselves.

Re: Mayakovsky's poetry. I did find a translation much better than the excerpt from the Prologue of The Cloud in Trousers , as rendered above. I cannot do justice to him in Russian yet - maybe never, I agree with all above at the difficulty of understanding poetry, with its deep roots, as a non-native speaker - but this translation helps English readers appreciate a bit more, I think. It does much more with sounds, striking language combinations, and clashing images:

Prologue

I'll tease your thought musing
on soft tissue overstuffed
flunkey on a greasy sofa
I'll razz away brazen and acid
these bloody rags

Without a grey hair in my soul
or snip of senility's gentleness
Raiding the world with
sheer force of voice I'm strutting
handsome
22 years old

You tune your loves on violins
tender ones
The crude club them on drums
but you can't turn them
insideout like me
become pure lips alone

Come on and learn your satiny
prim functionary of
angelic leagues and you
leafing through lips like
a cook paging recipes

You want I be meateating madman
or changing tone like a sky
You want I'll be irreproachably
tender no man but a cloud
in trousers

Screw Nice and its pretty flowers
Once more to intone
men bedsick as hospital women
decrepit proverbs...

translated from the Russian by Jack Hirschman and Victor Ehrlich

Selection taken from Poems for the Millenium, Vol I, edited by Jerome Rothenberg and Pierre Joris, pub by University of California Press, 1995. ISBN 0-520-07225-1

I posted a passage from this book on the Movie thread...
Would someone please locate the original Russian verison and post the link to it?

"What is Art?" (New York: Funk and Wagnalls, 1904), by Leo Tolstoy, ed. by Aylmer Maude
http://www.archive.org/details/whatisart00tolsuoft (on the lefthand side are choices to read online or download as a pdf)

This essay (originally published in 1896) and the translation by Alymer Maude (first published in 1899) are in the public domain and may be freely reproduced.


What Is Art? is the result of fifteen years of reflection about the nature and purpose of art.

Summary: Tolstoy claims that all good art is related to the authentic life of the broader community and that the aesthetic value of a work of art is not independent of its moral content. The book is noteworthy not only for its famous iconoclasm and compelling attacks on the aestheticist notion of "art for art's sake" but even more for its wit, its lucid and beautiful prose, and its sincere expression of the deepest social conscience.

Hehe, I also posted something on the Movie thread that lead me to think about posting here.
The fragment I posted there is from a short story by J.D. Salinger. I wonder if anyone here read his books. A long time ago, when I was much, much younger, Salinger used to be my favorite author, and I considered "The Catcher in the Rye" one of the best books I had ever read. I am not so enthusiastic about it anymore, but I still consider it a good book. And some of Salinger's stories, especiall the Glass saga—and especially the Franny and Zooey cycle— are still among my favorites.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Would someone please locate the original Russian verison and post the link to it?

I coldn't find a read-online version, but it can be downloaded as a Word document on this page: http://photo-element.ru/philosophy/tols ... e_art.html

Originally Posted by translationsnmru

A long time ago, when I was much, much younger, Salinger used to be my favorite author, and I considered "The Catcher in the Rye" one of the best books I had ever read. I am not so enthusiastic about it anymore, but I still consider it a good book.

...but... I cannot begin to tell you how much I loathed "Catcher in the Rye" when I was forced to read it in high school! I tell you, it was one of the books which turned me OFF reading and contributed to the downfall of my vocabulary! That and "The World According to Garp" by John Irving and as I mentioned previously, The Grapes of Wrath. These books did nothing for me except make me hate to read as a child and young adult.

Maybe one of you can explain to "poor little old me" why these books are soooo fabulous??? What am I missing here?

Catcher in the Rye (English)
http://www.iktmmedia.com/files/J.D._Sal ... he_Rye.pdf