Thread: Cultural Differences Between Americans and Russians

Ukraine

there's a drop-down list of countries

Originally Posted by Deborski

Personal space. Americans prefer a lot more personal space than Russians do. In Russia, people are comfortable talking with maybe a foot of personal space between them, whereas Americans prefer closer to three feet. Americans are very uncomfortable with "close talkers" so if they start to back away when you are talking, don't close in on them.

Oh yeah, you're so right about that! I've happened to be confused by a number of Russians trying to get really close to me while talking. The most interesting thing is, no matter if you're stepping back, they won't really get it and won't give up their attempts to have your face a few inches in front of theirs. =)

Originally Posted by LXNDR

the politicians especially the Republicans, who claim to be Christians, constantly in their election campaigns stress family values
and a presidential candidate absolutely has to be an exemplary family man

but me, i don't see it the way Anixx does, it's more of a propaganda than reflection of the real state of affairs


at the same time if Americans had to vote in a woman to the office, i feel they'd vote for a single mother without hesitation, so there go family values
but they probably wouldn't vote for a childless woman either married or not

what do you think, Deb?

I think you understand American politics very well. Yes, the right-wing propaganda is all about "family values" - but it's a facade. Many of the leading right-wing champions of "family values" have cheated on their wives, divorced multiple times, or been involved in bizarre sexual scandals - like fondling men in airport restroom stalls! They are a hypocritical bunch, indeed!

In reality, those of us who work are expected to sacrifice EVERYTHING for our jobs. There is no excuse here for not working.

Yes, we might elect a woman as a President... but throughout our history, women's rights have been last, after the rights of other minorities. We elected a Black President, so now we may finally be able to elect a female one. Hillary Clinton will likely run for President in 2016.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Oh yeah, you're so right about that! I've happened to be confused by a number of Russians trying to get really close to me while talking. The most interesting thing is, no matter if you're stepping back, they won't really get it and won't give up their attempts to have your face a few inches in front of theirs. =)

Ahaha. I tried to imaging such a situation, and I realized, that it's very much true. "Hey, where are you going? We are talking right now". )))

Regarding conversation style: I've read once that Russians have problems with long pauses while talking to strangers, especially comparing to Northern nations (Scandinavians, etc.). When there's suddenly a lull in a conversation most Russians are afraid that it's "dying" and do their best to "restart" it, they redouble their efforts in engaging their interlocutor, trying new topics, etc. That's a classical culture misunderstanding. While Russians think that they are being good company people from other countries often see them as overly talkative, inattentive or even intimidating. The funny thing is that Russians do not necessarily like to talk that much, they just feel that they are supposed to make an effort for the sake of a person they are talking to.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Regarding conversation style: I've read once that Russians have problems with long pauses while talking to strangers, especially comparing to Northern nations (Scandinavians, etc.). When there's suddenly a lull in a conversation most Russians are afraid that it's "dying" and do their best to "restart" it, they redouble their efforts in engaging their interlocutor, trying new topics, etc.

Hehehe, I'm American and I have a habit of doing that! If people stop talking, it feels like the conversation is broken and I have to "fix" it! Maybe it's my Norwegian blood or something.

I've also noticed that Russians have a tendency to analyze everything constantly. I do the same thing, and many of my American friends find it annoying or intimidating.

You gave very generalized statements about two countries that are very, very large. I don't know how I feel about this topic in general.

Originally Posted by Gnome

You gave very generalized statements about two countries that are very, very large. I don't know how I feel about this topic in general.

Generally speaking, I dislike generalities. But when discussing topics like "culture" - which are very broad topics - it's hard to avoid. There will always be people who are exceptions to the rules, and certainly attitudes and cultural minutia vary from one part of a large country to another. No offense is intended with this post.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Interesting. What makes you think this?

The right-wing ideology dominant to America empathizes family. This is even said in Wikipedia. This is because family seen as an instrument of inheritance for rich people. As an example it is often cited that American presidents usually have portraits of their wives and family on their workplace. The wive of the president is usually goes with him, while in the USSR only Georbachev borrowed this practice from the Americans because he admired them and this was widely publicized.

In America sometimes dynasties are involved not only in industrial management but also in politics such as the Bushs and the Clintons which is not the case of Russia.

Although currently the state attempts to impose similar values in Russia, it is still not universally accepted.

Another example is the absence of orphanages in the US where all parentless children get adopted. In Russia there are lots of orphanages.

Originally Posted by Anixx

The right-wing ideology dominant to America empathizes family. This is even said in Wikipedia. This is because family seen as an instrument of inheritance for rich people. As an example it is often cited that American presidents usually have portraits of their wives and family on their workplace. The wive of the president is usually goes with him, while in the USSR only Georbachev borrowed this practice from the Americans because he admired them and this was widely publicized.

In America sometimes dynasties are involved not only in industrial management but also in politics such as the Bushs and the Clintons which is not the case of Russia.

Although currently the state attempts to impose similar values in Russia, it is still not universally accepted.

Another example is the absence of orphanages in the US where all parentless children get adopted. In Russia there are lots of orphanages.

Well, as someone (not rich) who has lived in America most of my life, I would like to point out that not everything you read in Wikipedia is true. This is only an "ideal" - vaunted by America's right-wing conservative christian community.

In reality, many of us are separated from our families. When we graduate high school, many of go away to colleges in different states, far from where we grew up. Once we graduate, if we are lucky enough to find jobs, we may find ourselves living on the other side of the country. We are expected to work long hours, with little time left over for family.

Orphanages - foster homes - believe me, there are plenty.

I cannot fully compare to Russia, because I only lived in Russia a short time in comparison, but from my perspective it seemed that Russians, often living in multigenerational homes, are much more family oriented (in reality) than Americans are.

Originally Posted by Deborski

In reality, those of us who work are expected to sacrifice EVERYTHING for our jobs. There is no excuse here for not working.

Sounds a tad irrational. Why are you so committed to your jobs? For what purpose?

Btw, I watched a movie (Greenberg, 2010) a few weeks ago where a certain carpenter was quite comfortable in his own skin and enjoyed life practically doing nothing. Is it still an outrageous challenge to your social norms or a sign of a new trend?

Originally Posted by diogen_

Sounds a tad irrational. Why are you so committed to your jobs? For what purpose?

Btw, I watched a movie (Greenberg, 2010) a few weeks ago where a certain carpenter was quite comfortable in his own skin and enjoyed life practically doing nothing. Is it still an outrageous challenge to your social norms or a sign of a new trend?

Just a tad? I think it's completely irrational, and that we're headed for a crash.

A lot of us are tired of the corporate-run oppression, but a lot more seem to just think "that is how it is" and their thinking is constantly reinforced by politicians backed by vast sums of cash from corporations.

The rugged individualist American of the past does not fit into the corporocracy. Individuality is not encouraged in corporate systems by and large, although some of the new companies are researching different ways of dealing with employees, but many corporations insist "there is no "I" in TEAM." Sound familiar to you?

Do you mind putting these types of statements in the "Politics" section of this forum so I can continue to ignore them?

Thank you,

Scott

Originally Posted by Deborski

I think you understand American politics very well. Yes, the right-wing propaganda is all about "family values" - but it's a facade. Many of the leading right-wing champions of "family values" have cheated on their wives, divorced multiple times, or been involved in bizarre sexual scandals - like fondling men in airport restroom stalls! They are a hypocritical bunch, indeed!

In reality, those of us who work are expected to sacrifice EVERYTHING for our jobs. There is no excuse here for not working.

Yes, we might elect a woman as a President... but throughout our history, women's rights have been last, after the rights of other minorities. We elected a Black President, so now we may finally be able to elect a female one. Hillary Clinton will likely run for President in 2016.

Originally Posted by fortheether

Do you mind putting these types of statements in the "Politics" section of this forum so I can continue to ignore them?

Thank you,

Scott

Scott, I agree, politics is derailing the thread. Can everyone please keep this to cultural differences without too much political discussion?

Originally Posted by Deborski

I cannot fully compare to Russia, because I only lived in Russia a short time in comparison, but from my perspective it seemed that Russians, often living in multigenerational homes, are much more family oriented (in reality) than Americans are.

Agree
I have been living in Russia almost my whole life and almost 6 years in North America (5 in the US) and I will stand on what I said before - Russians are more bound to their parents and relatives

Americans are more patriotic which is a good thing, I think
But sometimes "too patriotic" when patriotism is used as a cover up for something else

I manage a motel in a resort area at night (3-11)
I've had from 2 to 6 Russians (and Eastern Europeans, Belarus, Ukraine) work for/with me for the last ten years.
J-1 visa kids; college age. A different set of circumstances to observe. They are "Fish out of water".
These aren't great jobs. Maids and Bellmen. Most have another job, usually at a restaurant.
They are mostly homesick for the first couple of weeks until they get settled in. They e-mail daily at first then feel bad when it tapers down to twice a week. At the end of the summer, they don't want to go home.

My observations comparing them to US college-age kids:
Russian kids have better study/work habits than American kids. It shows in a number of ways.
They are"smarter" because they were serious about school. Math. They speak English fluently and usually can "Pidgin" another 1-3. Americans can barely speak to Quebecois after 6 years of French or Maids after 6 years of Spanish. Guilty as charged. It's been 30 years since I studied French, I learned Spanish working in South Florida factories and never had a formal Russian lesson in my life. I get by though.
They show up, on bikes, after working a breakfast/lunch shift. Americans might show up, late, in a car their parents gave them.
If Russians call in sick, they are sick (OK, sometimes a crippling hangover). Americans call in sick and show up the next day with a sunburn.
Russian Горничные are better than Brazilian and Jamaican Maids. American kids are too lazy and entitled to work as maids.
Russian Коридорные are on par with Jamaican and American Bellboys. Very polite and don't put their hand out for a tip.
Russian kids aren't as materialistic as American kids. Granted, they show up with 1 old suitcase and leave with 2 new ones filled with stuff, they seem to be able to get by with less.
Russian kids seem more appreciative. I get lots of free stuff. Free Boat rides, whale watching, baseball tickets, meals, etc. I don't give them to the American kids anymore.

Observations I've heard from Russian kids:
Americans are fat, lazy and stupid. Americans are fit, work hard and smart.
You work too hard. You are always playing at work.
Americans are not happy. I heard about the "American Smile", but you are really happy!
You are too serious. You don't take life seriously.
American food is better, it is fresh. American food is bad, it comes from cans.
American beer sucks. Americans hide the good beer.
I hate this place. I love this place.

Some contradictions. Wide-eyed kids seeing a new part of the world. Most have never seen the ocean and a beach or have stayed in a hotel. Some are fairly worldly. "My Kids". I keep in touch with them for a couple years until they get real jobs, married and children.

I learn, they learn.
2 girls are due June 16.

Originally Posted by capecoddah

I manage a motel in a resort area at night (3-11)
I've had from 2 to 6 Russians (and Eastern Europeans, Belarus, Ukraine) work for/with me for the last ten years.
J-1 visa kids; college age.

I hope IRS and DHS are not watching

Originally Posted by capecoddah

They are"smarter" because they were serious about school. Math.

Two things
1. If you see a Russian student in the US on J-1 then most likely that student stands out from the crowd. He/she either really smart and got scholarship to go to the US or his/her parents are rich (I doubt that you gonna see the second kind at the motel)

2. Russian school system is yet stays analytic (thank God) comparing to the US school system. That means there are not a lot of tests where you supposed to pick the right answer from a few. There are tests which have no pre-defined answer, you need to use you brain to analyze and find/calculate the correct answer yourself using your knowledge. It is harder on teachers but it benefits the kids a lot. It develops creativity and analytic thinking. However Russian school system lacks home projects (like building the Solar system model from bunch of scrap) which you can find in the US

Very interesting reading about the topic
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/ma...pagewanted=all

Originally Posted by Doomer

Two things
1. If you see a Russian student in the US on J-1 then most likely that student stands out from the crowd. He/she either really smart and got scholarship to go to the US or his/her parents are rich (I doubt that you gonna see the second kind at the motel)

You're confusing an F-1 Student Visa (F-1 Student Visa: Education in the USA - ) (Student Visas ) with a J-1 Exchange Visitor ( J-1 Visa Basics | J-1 Visa).

2 different things.

F-1 is a visa to be a student in the USA.Work part-time.
J-1 is a visa granted to students to work and see the USA. Work full time for 3 months and travel 1.

F-1 kids are rare away from a university.
J-1 kids are pretty common. Not from "rich" families, they are usually in debt to their family though. Two jobs to pay back loans and buy stuff for their friends and family.

F-1 kids think chess is exciting and have poor social skills.
J-1 kids will beat me in chess but are a whole lot of fun.

F-1 kids go home as pale as when they arrived
J-1 kids go home with a nice tan and great stories.

I met some F-1 Russians in my school life and 3 trying to work for a summer. I remember the 2 guys as highly intelligent incompetents. The girl had "Total Recall" or Highly Superior Autobiographical Memory (HSAM). She could remember what a person ate, time date, credit card number, etc. She learned Brazilian-Portuguese in 2 months. She was fairly "normal". She remembers me with "What the fuck".

My "Kids".

I remember a time when Americans had more of a work ethic than we do now... when we weren't afraid to take low-wage, or manual labor jobs. When I was a teenager, I mucked out manure at a stable. I cleaned 20 stalls a day to pay for horseback riding lessons. Later, I worked for a large greenhouse. I was the only American there, the rest of the workers were Mexican summer workers. Even then, not many American kids were willing to put their back into anything, and that was in the 1980's! As I got older, I worked lots of jobs, payed my own way through college (back when a part time job was enough to pay for college) and became more and more amazed at how few Americans my own age were willing to go the extra mile.

I think a lot of people are in for a rude awakening.