Thread: Thinking in English

Well, this is all about the thread title. I've been contemplating starting to make a deliberate effort to think in English, which is my second language as you most likely have concluded from the very first sentence you're reading now

Okay, let me elaborate on that. Basically, I created this thread because I want to know your opinions on such an endeavor and, of course, to ask you "English thinking" questions if I run across any trouble (I know I will ). But first, let me share my opinion about this stuff.

To start with, I think it's not going to cause any harm to my English abilities. At first, I was afraid that my poor grammar and lack of vocabulary might lead me astray and condemn me to "always-thinking-in Russian-English translation" torture, as the most unbreakable habit is the one you don't realize you have. But I decided that, with some luck, I can avoid this trouble with the help of native English speakers.

Secondly, I thought it can confuse me because I can't reproduce correct English accent either in my mind or when speaking. So I was wondering if such an inconvenience can badly affect my listening comprehension. But after some thinking through, I concluded that this is not likely to happen, which leads us to my third thought.

I guess thinking in English can only boost my English skills, because I believe that repeating a word in lots of different context is closely intertwined with how well you understand the word. It's just like this. The more you use a word the deeper it entrenches itself in your mind. It virtually becomes a part of you, so you don't even need a smallest delay to get the word's meaning, you just understand it the very moment you hear it. That is what builds up fluency in every aspects such as reading, speaking, listening etc.

Well, that's it. Sorry for putting up such a long post. I can't wait to see your opinions about this. Also, I would be most appreciative if someone corrected my poor English (I know that would be a lot of stuff to correct but...)

Да что вы! The error rate is very low, or perhaps more a matter of style or taste. eg "Secondly, I thought it can confuse..." Perhaps could/might instead of can.

"...builds up fluency in every aspects..." singular, aspect.

I think it's inevitable that you will see the correct English phrasing (or some phrasing amongst several), without having to recast it from Russian. You'll simply see it in your own mind that you can skip the step, and produce automatically in English, for things you are familiar with.

Уже вы думаете по англиски, уверен.

That's an important idea. I am often involved in language environments and there are linguists among my friends. One of them remembers his days at university when he was studying languages and linguistics, foreigners were among his professors there. So the idea is:
When speaking a foreign lanuage one has to KILL Russian structures in them. So you see Igor. That's basic advice, and that's what professionals say. Just KILL the Russian structures, it's an important step. You may even choose to speak simple English, but just forget about Russian when you do it. It's hard to do without proper training and inner work I suppose, hard to do it on your own. The problem is that Russian structures are so deep in us, they are extremely difficult to destroy. I hope that might help you in your work, good Sir Igor!

Игорь, ты отлично говоришь по-английски. Не бойся об акцентом. Акцент - это ничего, и все, что ты говоришь понятно мне! Серёзно! Надеюсь, что я могу однажды говорить так свободно по-русский, как ты говоришь по-английский. На самом деле, мне это удивительно, как быстро ты улучшаешься. )))

Просто, надо часто и много практиковаться и всё будет в порядке.

Привет Игорь. Сколько лет сколько зим друг Мне только нравиться эту фрзу Ну я думаю то, что ты указал правда очень важно. Я тоже хочу думать на русском языке, как один русский может думать и говорит но её/его родной. Но я уже не знаю много граматик и слов, поэтому мой русский и моя способность думать на русский очень ограничен (is this the correct word for "limited" if i want to say "my ability to think in russian is very limited"?) Я надеюсь когда я выучу больше, я буду способен думать на русский больше. Удачи... (сколько ощибко в этом параграфе? - just pm me if you can, thanks )

Originally Posted by Deborski

Игорь, ты отлично говоришь по-английски. Не бойся об акцентом. Акцент - это ничего, и все, что ты говоришь понятно мне! Серёзно! Надеюсь, что я могу однажды говорить так свободно по-русский, как ты говоришь по-английский. На самом деле, мне это удивительно, как быстро ты улучшаешься. )))

Просто, надо часто и много практиковаться и всё будет в порядке.

А вы слышали, как Игорь говорит по-английски?

Originally Posted by Marcus

А вы слышали, как Игорь говорит по-английски?

да, она слышала и я тоже.

Originally Posted by Marcus

А вы слышали, как Игорь говорит по-английски?

Много раз, даже

Originally Posted by alexsms

...the idea is: When speaking a foreign lanuage one has to KILL Russian structures in them...

One of those forms is the adverbial principle. It was easy for me to start to think in English with the adverbial forms. So it could be that the English structures we use instead of the adverbial forms of Russian might be a working topic/point of departure.

"For me, pleasantly sounding and interestingly constructed Russian language and thought"

That, I think, could be made into a correct grammatical sentence in Russian.

All those niceties of verbal tenses is kind of a major point in English, that isn't a big point in Russian. So it's probably central to 'English thinking'. And English is an 'analytic language' while Russian is a 'synthetic language' and this really affects the thinking processes.

Hi again. Thanks for your useful replies.

Okay, today was a difficult and exhausting day because I actually did what I talked about, which is trying to think in English, and I have been doing that for the whole day . What can I say? Well, it unexpectedly worked out quite well. It felt really strange though, because paying such close attention to what and how I was thinking is definetely a new experience for me.

Words, however, seemed to come up to my mind smoothly and swiftly most of the time. But, of course, I have some questions to ask now, so here we go.

1) Okay, I realized that I was inclined to say "let's do something" to myself and I think this is a problem, because there were no "us" I addressed, there was only me, and that gave me a sense of frustration. I seemed to use the "let's do something" phrase automatically for some reason and, to top it all, it felt almost like a craving. To make it perfectly clear, let me provide which kinds of situations triggered the phrase in my mind.

So it's basically the situation when you suddenly decide that you want to do something. For example:

I was in the kitchen doing some stuff and my eyes ran over the jar filled with filtered water, so I realized that I wanted to drink and I said to myself: "Let's pour a glass of water".

I would just use a future tense in Russian for this - (пойду) налью (стакан) воды. So I would like to ask you to provide a thinking pattern for this example, like what I should normally say instead of "let's do something" in such cases.

2) What do you call the fully developed cottonwood seeds? We use тополиный пух in Russian, google translate interprets that as cottonwood fluff, but I think it's not correct.

3) I was getting out of a "Gazelle" microbus, which we use as an alternative to public transport, from the rear seats today and as you could assume it was quite a task. The height of the roof is lower than the average height of a human, the inside of the car is filled with many seats so the passage from the rear seats to the door is really narrow. So I was going along the passage with my back and knees bent and I had to be squeezing through We usually use на корячках, like in идти на корячках, for this position of a body I've described, so I ask you to tell me how to express the "на корячках" phrase in English.

Well, that's basically it for today. Sorry for making it in a long and messy way. All corrections to my English text is highly appreciated as usual and I'm looking forward to see your replies. Thanks in advance.

P.S. I guess I will be posting questions here quite regularly because I'm bound to have a lot of them if I don't give up my endeavor. So I would like to know whether you want me to provide "how I'd say that in Russian" examples.

"3) I was getting out of a "Gazelle" microbus, which we use as an alternative to public transport, from the rear seats today and as you could assume it was quite a task. The height of the roof is lower than the average height of a human, the inside of the car is filled with many seats so the passage from the rear seats to the door is really narrow. So I was going along the passage with my back and knees bent and I had to be squeezing through We usually use на корячках, like in идти на корячках, for this position of a body I've described, so I ask you to tell me how to express the "на корячках" phrase in English."

'I had to stoop quite a bit because of the low roof/ceiling ...' People will say 'scrunch down because of the low ceiling' and other things on that line. 'scrunch down quite a bit' 'stoop because of the lack of head room...' etc. There is also a thing called 'duckwalk', walking while crouching or squatting. This may be what you're after.

"1) Okay, I realized that I was inclined to say "let's do something" to myself and I think this is a problem, because there were no "us" I addressed, there was only me,..."

For me, the 'let's...' doesn't seem out the of ordinary.

In a case of restlessness/agitation I will say to myself "I need to do something!" "I've got to do something!" "I need to get moving!" and things along those line. But I'll use a 'let's...' phrase also. "let's get out of here, (go for a walk or whatever) '

If I'm working on something, fixing something, installing something, etc, I'll use a "let's..." kind of phrase, to myself. "Let's see what happens when we do this." "What about when we try this..."

This is like the the royal 'we', first person changed to plural first person. I don't know why this is done, has something to do with me myself and I being present, I suppose. That is, I'm the agent and the observer at the same time. So it's as though there is an 'us' present, figuratively, словно мы/нами.

2) What do you call the fully developed cottonwood seeds? We use тополиный пух in Russian, google translate interprets that as cottonwood fluff, but I think it's not correct.

I think people would know what you meant. cottonwood seed fluff cottonwood seed down etc.

This is a typical flow of thought in Russian, try to render it in English.
Блин, завтра опять вставать ни свет ни заря... и этих опять забирать из гостиницы, круги по городу мотать... понаехали тут, ну вот нахера мне этот гемор. ...не могли хотябы на неделю попозже приехать, нет ведь, в самый, блин, неподходящий момент. ... это начальник все..., мог бы подсуетиться, потянуть еще немного, итак дел по-горло...бля, еще отчет сдавать... ему то х*ли, в 5 утра не вставать... Суки они все... ладно, х*р с ними, перемаемся как нибудь...

What do you call the fully developed cottonwood seeds? We use тополиный пух in Russian

Aha! Where I live -- not far southwest of Washington DC -- we get small amounts of тополиный пух in May. But these trees don't grow in huge numbers here and are less common than, for instance, oaks or maples.

But since the cottonwood isn't widespread here, I didn't know the correct name until I saw your post, and I've always referred to the seeds as "tree fluff"!

Right across the street from me, there is a small section of forest with maybe three or four cottonwoods growing near the parking lot of the Home Depot. So, a few weeks ago, it looked as though it were snowing in the parking lot, because of all the "пух". But I don't recall seeing such "tree fluff" anywhere else in this area.

I suspect that people who live in regions where these trees grow very widely would call it "cottonwood fluff", by the tree's proper name. And in any case, "fluff" will usually work for "пух".

Originally Posted by Man About Town

This is a typical flow of thought in Russian, try to render it in English.
Блин, завтра опять вставать ни свет ни заря ... и этих опять забирать из гостиницы, круги по городу мотать... понаехали тут, ну вот нахера мне этот гемор.

Here's my try at the first part -- lots of new (for me) slang here!

Dammit, tomorrow I have to get up at oh-dark-thirty again! And collect these guys from the hotel, take 'em waltzing all over the damn city. They come swarming here... what do I need this pain-in-the-ass bullsh*t for?

Originally Posted by iCake

1) I was in the kitchen doing some stuff and my eyes ran over the jar filled with filtered water, so I realized that I wanted to drink and I said to myself: "Let's pour a glass of water".

2) What do you call the fully developed cottonwood seeds? We use тополиный пух in Russian, google translate interprets that as cottonwood fluff, but I think it's not correct.

3) I was getting out of a "Gazelle" microbus, which we use as an alternative to public transport, from the rear seats today and as you could assume it was quite a task. The height of the roof is lower than the average height of a human, the inside of the car is filled with many seats so the passage from the rear seats to the door is really narrow. So I was going along the passage with my back and knees bent and I had to be squeezing through We usually use на корячках, like in идти на корячках, for this position of a body I've described, so I ask you to tell me how to express the "на корячках" phrase in English.

First of all, I just want to say that trying to think in English is a good habit to get into. I try to think a lot in German and Russian, but since my speaking has become rusty, it's not working out really great for me right now. Just keep it up and you'll get there.

1) This "Let's...." doesn't sound unnatural to me, so I say stick with it.
2) I'm quite allergic to cottonwood fluff, so I'm pretty sure that is what it is called. And I can't escape it!!
3) Maybe "stooping and squirming"? Or "I had to ooch myself across the seats just to get out the of the tiny car." (Yes, I know that "ooch" is not exactly a 'real' word in English in this sense, but I'm pretty sure this is how my mom and I would put it.)

I think maybe one of the reasons that there aren't many corrections to your English is that you don't make as many mistakes as you think you do. Do not underestimate yourself and your capabilities! Кстаси, я слышала, как ты говоришь, а я думаю, что ты прекрасно говоришь по-английски.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Aha! Where I live -- not far southwest of Washington DC -- we get small amounts of тополиный пух in May. But these trees don't grow in huge numbers here and are less common than, for instance, oaks or maples.

But since the cottonwood isn't widespread here, I didn't know the correct name until I saw your post, and I've always referred to the seeds as "tree fluff"!

Right across the street from me, there is a small section of forest with maybe three or four cottonwoods growing near the parking lot of the Home Depot. So, a few weeks ago, it looked as though it were snowing in the parking lot, because of all the "пух". But I don't recall seeing such "tree fluff" anywhere else in this area.

I suspect that people who live in regions where these trees grow very widely would call it "cottonwood fluff", by the tree's proper name. And in any case, "fluff" will usually work for "пух".

There are several different kinds of cottonwood trees. Per my experience the trees that grow in the US spread far less amount of "fluff" than the trees that grow in Russia
In some Russia regions it's just nightmare

Thanks again for all the help.

Originally Posted by Seraph

If I'm working on something, fixing something, installing something, etc, I'll use a "let's..." kind of phrase, to myself. "Let's see what happens when we do this." "What about when we try this...
This is like the the royal 'we', first person changed to plural first person...

I see now that using "let's" kind of phrase is totally okay in that situation, then. But, what if I ignore the royal "we" and say it like that:

Let's see what happens when I do this

Would it still be a normal phrase to say to yourself?

Originally Posted by Seraph

'I had to stoop quite a bit because of the low roof/ceiling ...' People will say 'scrunch down because of the low ceiling' and other things on that line. 'scrunch down quite a bit' 'stoop because of the lack of head room...' etc. There is also a thing called 'duckwalk', walking while crouching or squatting. This may be what you're after.

Thanks a lot, I suppose all the suggestions you made are just fine for what I originally wanted to say, especially duckwalk.


Now it's time to ask new questions

1) What verb do you use to describe a very loud, unpleasant and quite long laughter? We use ржать for that in Russian. The literal meaning of this Russian verb is to neigh. So you can imagine now, which kind of laughter the verb describes, the one which resembles neighing

2) We say черты лица in Russian to mean how a particular face looks in general. And by using "how", I say that the phrase doesn't make sense on its own, it has to be accompanied by an adjective. For example:
Приятные черты лица means that all the parts that form a face image (nose, lips, cheekbones, chin etc) generally look nice to you
Квадратные черты лица means that parts of the face looks kind of square to you and so as a whole they paint a picture of a square face.

Oh, I hope that explanation will work

3) If you don't live alone this is gonna be something you're well familiar with. If a particular thing is used by more than one occupant then it usually has a proper place to be kept in. If you took the thing from the proper place you have to put it back in there after you had finished using it, so that other inhabitants could find it easily when they need it. We call this kind of place правильное место in Russian. What should I call it in English?

4) I was lying flat on my couch today and I felt that my neck and back went sore. So I moved into position in which I proped my head on the sligtly raised and inclined part of my couch so that to ease off the pressure on both my neck and back. I would use a Russian verb приподняться to express that movement I made. How can I convey that in English?

5) I don't know if you have such a verb as дождаться in English, but I think it's worth asking. Well, apparently, I have to provide the defenition of the verb and I guess the best way to do that is to provide it in the context.

Imagine you're waiting for someone to arrive. So if you "дождался" that someone, that means that you stopped waiting because they had arrived.
Or, you're waiting for something to happen. So if you "дождался" that something that means that you stopped waiting because that had happened.

Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by iCake

Let's see what happens when I do this

Would it still be a normal phrase to say to yourself?

Yes, for me, it would be natural.

1) What verb do you use to describe a very loud, unpleasant and quite long laughter? We use ржать for that in Russian. The literal meaning of this Russian verb is to neigh. So you can imagine now, which kind of laughter the verb describes, the one which resembles neighing

Horse laugh, raucous laughter, mocking laughter, guffaw.

2) We say черты лица in Russian to mean how a particular face looks in general. And by using "how", I say that the phrase doesn't make sense on its own, it has to be accompanied by an adjective. For example:
Приятные черты лица means that all the parts that form a face image (nose, lips, cheekbones, chin etc) generally look nice to you
Квадратные черты лица means that parts of the face looks kind of square to you and so as a whole they paint a picture of a square face.

finely chiseled features, well proportioned visage etc. I'm not sure of your meaning for Квадратные черты лица, possibly dull facial features/dull featured/ or even plain featured?

3) If you don't live alone this is gonna be something you're well familiar with. If a particular thing is used by more than one occupant then it usually has a proper place to be kept in. If you took the thing from the proper place you have to put it back in there after you had finished using it, so that other inhabitants could find it easily when they need it. We call this kind of place правильное место in Russian. What should I call it in English?

the proper place

4) I was lying flat on my couch today and I felt that my neck and back went sore. So I moved into position in which I proped my head on the sligtly raised and inclined part of my couch so that to ease off the pressure on both my neck and back. I would use a Russian verb приподняться to express that movement I made. How can I convey that in English?

propped my head up with/on ..., elevated my head (on a pillow or whatever),

5) I don't know if you have such a verb as дождаться in English, but I think it's worth asking. Well, apparently, I have to provide the defenition of the verb and I guess the best way to do that is to provide it in the context.

Imagine you're waiting for someone to arrive. So if you "дождался" that someone, that means that you stopped waiting because they had arrived.
Or, you're waiting for something to happen. So if you "дождался" that something that means that you stopped waiting because that had happened.

Thanks in advance

Don't know if there is a perfect English word/phrase for this. Since in your explanation, you indicate a successful outcome, or fulfillment. The English forms don't necessarily indicate fulfillment. This would require some extra qualifier. But the sense you indicate could be something like 'expectancy fulfilled' 'anticipation fulfilled' or something like that. But simpler, less bookish forms could be more normal.

Originally Posted by Seraph

I'm not sure of your meaning for Квадратные черты лица, possibly dull facial features/dull featured/ or even plain featured?

Well, I meant it quite literally, square as in shape, that means square chin, square cheekbones etc...

Originally Posted by Seraph

Don't know if there is a perfect English word for this. Wait covers a lot of possibilities. Was waiting? Anticipated? Was expecting?

The Russian word дожидаться covers all of those meanings you pointed out. But basically, as I said if you дождался something that means that the something you were expecting, anticipating or waiting for, finally happened, or arrived or whatever. That's just it

Well, I meant it quite literally, square as in shape, that means square chin, square cheekbones etc...

If the forehead of a person is the same width as the jaw I believe they would say something like "square jaw" or "square jawline".

дождался something that means that the something you were expecting, anticipating or waiting for, finally happened, or arrived or whatever. That's just it

That's a tough one, I think Russian verbs denoting accomplishment like успеть, дождаться, сходить and many others don't have direct equivalents in English, so the translation would be highly context dependent.
Ex.
Я его ждал, но так и не дождался. = I waited for him, but he never came.
Он дождался что его выгнали с работы. = He ended up being sacked.
Не могу дождаться лета. = I can't wait for summer.
Ты у меня дождешься! = You are cruising for a bruising, mate!