Search:

Yozh, are you sarcastic? Why?
Yes, they were starving for their own (and future generations) benefit. Please, give me an example of any famine in Ukraine, happened between 1945 and 1991. You can't?...

BM, you call my sources propaganda by brain washed historians. What gives you the right to tell me your sources are the God given Truth? For every book you give me that says Stalin wasn't a mass...

@Scorpio

In other words, people starved for their own benefit?

"Yes, poor Ukrainians, now you all are dying of hunger, because we are exporting food, but don't worry, in two years you will all...

BM, comparing Nicholas I, a weak willed man, with Stalin, who had a strong will ever since he was Koba, is ridiculous.

Hitler never ever signed a document approving the deportation of Jews and...

No (misreading is very convenient sometimes), I said earlier that 1,4 million deaths is "mass" murder in my book. I don't care if he killed 20 million (closer to my truth, at least), 5 million, 1,4...

No arguments? I gave you Scorpio's source! 1,4 million deaths! What more do you want? Make Stalin a saint? If you think he wasn't responsible for any deaths, it's YOU who are going against the...

Jasper May, for a "clown" you're quite intelligent. :) I must agree with you. If bad manners even doubts the lowest number available (1,4 million), I'd say we are fighting a useless fight here.
...

Are you referring to this quote by Scorpio?

"The total number of victims of political repression in USSR in period from 1921 to 1953 (e.g. so-called Stalin's era) is approximately 4 mln. This...

@Scorpio

Denying the famine? The USSR was producing food for export to pay for the industrialization. The famine should never, ever have happened.

"In order to make the USSR a bastion of...

They were verified by many historians. You say they base their claims on nothing, I say it's based on real sources. We dance around in circles.



Those documents also have been made available to...

N, that's not saying you were brain washed. People can be stubborn without being brain washed. I wouldn't wanna deny you the credit of being stubborn out of your own! :wink: :lol:

That's what you in fact said to me. Remember? :wink: [/quote]

Uh, no. Just went through our discussion and I don't seem to be able to find any such alligations...

BTW, I have a feeling this is...

Well, I'm 25, studied "Russia Studies" at Leiden University and specialized in history (yep, history). Do you think I am fit to discuss this with you?

BTW, what are your qualifications in this...

OK, let's examine your arguments, then:

1. "You were brainwashed!"

Yep, that's sure to kill any discussion. "You were fed propaganda, I, however, know the full truth..."

Hmmm, I wonder who's...

OK, badmanners, whatever... :roll:

I love Stalin! He's a saint! He saved our Rodina! Hurrah for Stalin!

And quoting Lenin doesn't really help your case...

His last book - "Тайны Кремля. Сталин, Молотов, Берия, Маленков" [/quote]

Thanks! :)

Next time I'm in Russia, I'll try and find it!

No, but I know others will. And Volkogonov would have been crushed if he had made things up.



I know. His name is Suvorov and he's full of sh*t. "Mein Kampf" proves nothing, though. The fact...

He gives his opinion, yes. Volkogonov, on the other hand, gives a whole list of sources in his book. Sources from Soviet archives that were closed before. So, we have a man who gives me a list of...

And someone supporting Stalin isn't? :? Yeah, right.... :roll:

Let me guess, Volkogonov is biased because he writes about Stalin in a negative way? So, if I were to write bad, bad things about...

Read Volkogonov...

And I already know how to read in Russian. I read Volkogonov in Russian, Zhukov's memoirs, Rokossovsky's memoirs etc.

Your "so-called" disgusts me. It's like saying the...

No matter how "small" Hitler seemed to be, he was the man who had vowed to destroy Communism and it's homeland - the USSR. That's like the Americans supporting Bin Laden!


Oh, wait... :D

But that was already after Hitler had come to power. Before that, Germany and the USSR were working closely together in military matters.

If you would like, I am a pro-Stalinist. About people killed, I've seen a number of 2 million people. 7 million is just funny. It's more like overestimated bs by Krushёv, which then was overestimated...

Strange books you read. It's MUCH more! Only in the artificially created Ukrainian famine millions died!



Well, about industrialization: you've got a point there. The USSR did reap great...

Jasper, that doesn't necessarily mean they love Stalin so much. Stalingrad is also the name of the city that heroically fought off the Germans. When Leningrad chose to become St. Petersburg again,...