Thread: Sochi 2014 - Olympic Winter Games (official site)

Off-topic posts have been moved to Off-topic posts from http://masterrussian.net/f55/sochi-2014-olympic-winter-games-off

My prediction for the slalom:

1. Neureuther
2. Hirscher
3. Matt

If I'm right, I expect a very big beer as a reward.

Originally Posted by edvalais

My prediction for the slalom:

1. Neureuther
2. Hirscher
3. Matt

If I'm right, I expect a very big beer as a reward.

In the immortal words of Meat Loaf, two out of three ain't bad!

All-in-all, I thought the Olympics were great. I liked the joke in the closing ceremony where the fifth ring didn't open for a while. Who said the russkies don't have a sense of humour (joke)?

But was it worth $50bn?????

Originally Posted by edvalais

But was it worth $50bn?????

Ok, let's see:
2 new automobile roads that will last for another ten years at least (including 35 tunnels and bridges)
1 railroad line
2 gas pipelines
1 power plant + 17 substations to provide energy
43 hotels (20K+ guests)

1 Stadium
1 Skiing center
1 Skating center

Well, it's a total waste of money!

Now, about these $50bn. The real figure is only about $6bn (I mean the money spent directly on the Olympics, not the infrastructure that will last for the next few decades).

I'm sure that there are a number of Russians who are exceedingly pleased that the Olympics took place - and now much much richer. The Russian Forbes article on the road built between Sochi and the ski area was very entertaining...

Would I want to ski there? Yes, but only if someone else was paying.

edvalais,
Because of corruption the EU lose 120 bil. every year. It's not a doubtful article in Forbes (I can't get it seriously after the anti-Russian orgy in the western media), it's official information. Of course, those guys who get this 120 bil. every year are very happy, too.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

edvalais,
Because of corruption the EU lose 120 bil. every year. It's not a doubtful article in Forbes (I can't get it seriously after the anti-Russian orgy in the western media), it's official information. Of course, those guys who get this 120 bil. every year are very happy, too.

Sure, corruption isn't a Russian disease - look at Vinci's role in the Moscow - St P road.

I hope you sense, Pasha, that I admire and respect Russia and her culture. I'm PRO-Russia. But when I see photos of the imperial villa in Gelendzhik which some claim belongs to Putin, or I see him wearing fabulously expensive Swiss watches (not air-brushed out like Kirill's), or I read descriptions of Yakunin's luxury villa outside Moscow, I worry about where Russia is heading. Nevertheless I managed to laugh when Navalny (talking about Yakunin) cited Saltykov-Shchedrin: "Во всех странах железные дороги для передвижения служат, а у нас, сверх того, и для воровства."

I'm sure this also goes for the rail-link between Sochi and Krasnaya Polyana.

люблю вашу отчизну я, но странною любовью...

But was it worth $50bn?????

Of course not. It was just an ambition of one person. Anyway, money spent wouldn't be directed to good purposes, it's just the way it is in Russia.

But when I see photos of the imperial villa in Gelendzhik

А в Швейцарии зато десятиминутная поездка в общественном транспорте стоит столько, что омский пенсионер за эти же деньги может кататься целый месяц, не вылезая из автобуса.

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

А в Швейцарии зато десятиминутная поездка в общественном транспорте стоит столько, что омский пенсионер за эти же деньги может кататься целый месяц, не вылезая из автобуса.

In the nearest town to where I live (I live on top of a mountain), you can use public transport for 90 minutes for 1.5 Swiss francs (60 roubles, in the UK it's free for pensioners). If you're saying a Russian pensioner can travel for a month on this, then this makes the несусветные деньги spent on Sochi seem all the more astronomical.

Another question: who here does NOT believe that corruption played no part in Sochi winning the Olympic bid (or Russian winning the bid for the football world cup)?

What's new about corruption at Olympics bid?

BBC News | World | Timeline: Olympics corruption scandal
Corruption and the Olympics

I can go on. It appears that EVERY bid the MOC ever held throughout history was corrupt, so what?

Originally Posted by Ramil

What's new about corruption at Olympics bid?

BBC News | World | Timeline: Olympics corruption scandal
Corruption and the Olympics

I can go on. It appears that EVERY bid the MOC ever held throughout history was corrupt, so what?

I'm not referring to pseudo-corruption, as outlined in the link you gave, but unequivocal, direct bribes. I personally believe that this is how Russian won the Olympic bid.

Incidentally, it's interesting that you directed me to the Transparency International link. Of course, in Russia TI has to designate itself a "Foreign Agent". Why is this? It was Putin's response to the US Magnitsky Bill - and we all know the profound cesspit of corruption and violence that forms the basis for the Magnitsky tragedy.

Russia is a great country. In my view, its people deserve better. I'm not convinced that the money spent on the Olympics (and the associated vast levels of bribes) could not have been more sensibly used. However, as I said before, I think the games went pretty well and I'm pleased that they've put Sochi on the map.

Originally Posted by edvalais

I'm not referring to pseudo-corruption, as outlined in the link you gave, but unequivocal, direct bribes. I personally believe that this is how Russian won the Olympic bid.

The words 'unequivocal' and 'personally believe' don't sound quite right in the same sentence. So, in case of some other Olympics games the accusations in bribery of the MOC are 'pseudo-corruption', but simply because you 'personally believe' in something makes Russia 'unequivocally' guilty. Okay

Originally Posted by edvalais

Incidentally, it's interesting that you directed me to the Transparency International link. Of course, in Russia TI has to designate itself a "Foreign Agent". Why is this?

What? Is it not true? Has Transparency International moved its HQ to Russia when I wasn't looking?
Seriously though, TI is NOT a foreign agent. It's a foreign organization. But when TI establishes in Russia something called 'Русская национальная правдивая организация' (Russian national truthful organization) for example AND ALSO this organization goes straight into the Russian politics then and only then this organization must add 'A Foreign agent' prefix to its name so that people would know that it's not in fact Russian and not in fact national. What concerns 'truthful' part - that's up to people do decide. What's wrong with this concept? I think, people are ought to know who are they listening to. Such 'agents' are not even forbidden to do politics here. They simply have to wear that 'agent' sign.

Originally Posted by edvalais

It was Putin's response to the US Magnitsky Bill - and we all know the profound cesspit of corruption and violence that forms the basis for the Magnitsky tragedy

Sergey Magnitsky's death is probably a tragedy, but such things happen. People die due to lack of medical attention (ok, even because the officials who were responsible for his continued good health in prison were corrupt). Such tragedies happen now and then around the globe but the whole matter was blown out of proportions. What I know is a) Magnitsky himself was not so 'innocent' as he's depicted in the Western media; b) Mr. William Felix Browder who was up to his ears in corrupt schemes with several high-ranked officials lost a great deal of money. It was then and only then, when Magnitsky was ordered to start throwing shit into the fan about 'thievery', etc. The problem was simple - Browder underestimated his Russian partners. He thought they were civilized enough to start throwing the shit back at him in the court, but they chose a more direct approach - no man = no problem. Personally, I believe that it was Browder who set up Magnitsky; and c) nobody would care about Magnitsky's death if Browder hadn't existed.

Originally Posted by edvalais

Russia is a great country. In my view, its people deserve better. I'm not convinced that the money spent on the Olympics (and the associated vast levels of bribes) could not have been more sensibly used. However, as I said before, I think the games went pretty well and I'm pleased that they've put Sochi on the map.

I agree with this. Olympics is pretty corrupt to begin with...

Apparently there were quite a few people, including RF citizens who would have loved to do serious damage to the games. I am glad they didn't succeed. I didn't really watch it, but it seems nothing went seriously wrong apart from that missing ring in the Olympic logo.

And yes, I think Russians need to get rid of corruption. Hard handedly if needed. Anyone who is found to take a bribe and his boss - get sent to a remote corner of Siberia, for mandatory 6 months anti-corruption training! And double it if they re-offend.
Nobody will take Russia seriously if the businessmen are one step up from a mafioso or white-collar thief, and all politicians can be bought.

And Switzerland really is a working example of democracy, I think - with the referendums.
I don't think most countries dare to have referendums though - they can't handle all that democracy... Or they only have them when they are certain what the outcome will be - such as the Scotland referendum.

I'm simply stating that, in my opinion, Russia secured the Olympic games by bribes. Can I prove it? No, but it is my belief. If you were to ban these type of statements on internet forums, there would be little discourse.

I referred to the Magnitsky case to highlight the level of corruption in Russia. You yourself refer to the corruption surrounding this sad figure. In this regard, we appear to agree.

What is Putin's official salary? I think it's about $190,000. How does he afford the watches he wears. In your opinion, is there any link between him and the palace in Gelendzhik? If there is, how on earth does he afford it?

The "Foreign Agent" law was just a childish reaction to the Magntisky Bill. Idem - the law banning American couples from adopting Russian children. This was spiteful and actually unkind. Some of these couples wanted to adopt handicapped children, who will now have to endure the horrors of a Russian orphanage. Why didn't Putin spend the $50bn on building more children's homes?

Originally Posted by edvalais

it is my belief

Understood. Would you also believe if I tell you that every Olympic bid winner paid bribes to the MOC? No? I thought so, because we only believe in what we want to believe.

Originally Posted by edvalais

I referred to the Magnitsky case to highlight the level of corruption in Russia. You yourself refer to the corruption surrounding this sad figure. In this regard, we appear to agree.

You know what? Corruption costs European economy 120 billion euros a year | Reuters
Corruption exists everywhere, and it's not like only Russia has this disease. Of course, I agree because I've never ever heard of a honest politician or a government official in any country.

Originally Posted by edvalais

What is Putin's official salary? I think it's about $190,000. How does he afford the watches he wears. In your opinion, is there any link between him and the palace in Gelendzhik? If there is, how on earth does he afford it?

The watch, yes. You know what? I think the president of Russia should wear expensive watch and go by the best limo one can find. We're not Zimbabwe or Ivory Coast, and if our president has a nice gold watch - I'm glad for him. No, really. Am I envious? No! No way I would trade places with him. So let this watch be, because I'm having much more fun in my life than he is.
As for the rest (I heard his personal wealth amounts up to $43 bn making him the richest man in the world) - let people believe in what they want to believe.

Originally Posted by edvalais

The "Foreign Agent" law was just a childish reaction to the Magntisky Bill.

A good and timely reaction nevertheless. I fully approve.

Originally Posted by edvalais

Idem - the law banning American couples from adopting Russian children. This was spiteful and actually unkind. Some of these couples wanted to adopt handicapped children, who will now have to endure the horrors of a Russian orphanage. Why didn't Putin spend the $50bn on building more children's homes?

Such rhetorics reminds me of Sharikov (a character from M. Bulgakov's 'The heart of a dog'). He also suggested that everything should be expropriated and divided equally. Russia is a rich country and we have money for both Olympics AND orphan houses (in fact, this laws that prohibited adoptions to foreigners has drawn the media attention to the orphanage problem in Russia and the statistics of domestic adoptions has improved greatly).

'endure the Horrors of a Russian orphanage' - that's nice. Heard it somewhere or invented yourself? BBC perhaps... or was it NY Times?

An orphan house from Russian hell:

Originally Posted by Ramil

'endure the Horrors of a Russian orphanage' - that's nice. Heard it somewhere or invented yourself? BBC perhaps... or was it NY Times?

An orphan house from Russian hell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAMFH2vaaHY

Video of Russian orphans being beaten sparks outrage | World news | theguardian.com

Originally Posted by edvalais

I'm simply stating that, in my opinion, Russia secured the Olympic games by bribes. Can I prove it? No, but it is my belief. If you were to ban these type of statements on internet forums, there would be little discourse.

So what? Even if we got this by bribing, who is to judge? It is my belief that it is the typical funding source for the Olympic Committee as an organisation.

Originally Posted by edvalais

What is Putin's official salary? I think it's about $190,000. How does he afford the watches he wears. In your opinion, is there any link between him and the palace in Gelendzhik? If there is, how on earth does he afford it?

Because he is Batman. And as a Batman he provides us with a great mystery about when he actually sleeps. Because it seems like he never does.

Originally Posted by edvalais

The "Foreign Agent" law was just a childish reaction to the Magntisky Bill. Idem - the law banning American couples from adopting Russian children. This was spiteful and actually unkind. Some of these couples wanted to adopt handicapped children, who will now have to endure the horrors of a Russian orphanage. Why didn't Putin spend the $50bn on building more children's homes?

Is American FARA law adult enough?
Also we will no longer give our kids away to the parents we can't charge for a crime against them.