Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

Originally Posted by Deborski

The Real Story on Gay Genes | DiscoverMagazine.com

Thank you but there is still no proof. I read the articles and they were long but if you also read the whole thing you will find what I'm talking about
Here is an example
You quoting article

Methylation turns off certain sections of genetic code. So even though we inherit two copies of every gene—one from our mother, one from our father—whether the gene is methylated often determines which of the two genes will be turned on. Methylation is inherited, just as DNA is. But unlike DNA, which has an enzyme that proofreads both the original and the copy to minimize errors, methylation has no built-in checks. It can change from one generation to the next and may be influenced by diet or environment. It’s in this mutability that Bocklandt hopes to find the secret, by seeing which flipped genetic switches correlate with homosexuality.

And later the same articles says

Ideally, Bocklandt would scan the genome of each individual, looking for a methylation pattern anywhere on any chromosome that shows up repeatedly in the gay member of each twin pair. Unfortunately, at the moment it costs about $10 million a person to map out every base pair of the 46 chromosomes, so Bocklandt is looking only where he suspects to unearth genetic gold. If he finds a pattern, then he will look at the DNA beneath the methylation.

So again it's a theory that might be true and might be not true. And all I'm saying that until it is true you shouldn't say otherwise and that's all I'm saying in this regard

Moreover he's studying twins, specifically , to prove that it is beyond DNA. Because twins have the same DNA and one of the twins can be straight while the other is gay. And this is a strong argument against "born this way" nature of the cause. However it is also a strong argument against environmental cause, so there is a chance that it is social(for example one of the twins dominating the other) but again, no proof

PS: However if it is social the Russian law seems to be quite reasonable. I believe some gay people would like to be "not-gay" if they could. If being gay is not genetic but acquired during brain development then it can be prevented. As well as some kids require psychological help to give them a better chance in life (I'm not talking about gays here but rather special eds )

Originally Posted by Doomer

So again it's a theory that might be true and might be not true. And all I'm saying that until it is true you shouldn't say otherwise and that's all I'm saying in this regard.

But it's OK for you to state adamantly that people are NOT born gay, right? Just not OK for me to say they they ARE born gay.

Look, you are entitled to your opinion, Doomer. And I am entitled to mine. Just because I am not a geneticist does not mean I am wrong. And just because this is a science which is still evolving, does not make you right either.

We will agree to disagree. But do not try to shout me down and call my opinions BULLSHIT when you cannot "prove" anything either.

Originally Posted by Deborski

But it's OK for you to state adamantly that people are NOT born gay, right? Just not OK for me to say they they ARE born gay.

No, you are incorrect
I did not say that people are not born gay, I said that's it is wrong to say that they are. And again because there is no proof. And because it is a sensitive topic these small details matter.

Originally Posted by Deborski

We will agree to disagree. But do not try to shout me down and call my opinions BULLSHIT when you cannot "prove" anything either.

I am not calling them bullshit I'm calling them conclusions that are not based on facts but rather on personal believes. So it is a religion but not science.

PS: you don't like to be criticized but it seems to me that you think it is appropriate to criticize the others. I think you should play fair if you want to see respect to your opinions .

Originally Posted by Doomer

No, you are incorrect
I did not say that people are not born gay, I said that's it is wrong to say that they are. And again because there is no proof. And because it is a sensitive topic these small details matter.


I am not calling them bullshit I'm calling them conclusions that are not based on facts but rather on personal believes. So it is a religion but not science.

PS: you don't like to be criticized but it seems to me that you think it is appropriate to criticize the others. I think you should play fair if you want to see respect to your opinions .

You've made the statement many times, Doomer. I am not just responding to your latest comment, but to the many, many times you have said that it's "bullshit."

It isn't "religion" - that's just silly. I'm about as far from "religious" as you can get.

There is more evidence to support that people are born gay, than there is evidence to support that they are not. How you choose to interpret that evidence, or completely ignore it, is your choice.

It isn't criticizing you personally to tell you to stop shouting me down. It's setting boundaries. Criticizing you personally, would be to make some remark about your intelligence or your emotional control, which I have not, and will not, do.

Originally Posted by Deborski

You've made the statement many times, Doomer. I am not just responding to your latest comment, but to the many, many times you have said that it's "bullshit."

It is pointless to make an argument about something which is not here IMHO. As well as accusing me with it

Originally Posted by Deborski

It isn't "religion" - that's just silly. I'm about as far from "religious" as you can get.

Well if you have a better word for it then use it. I guess I can be silly, or was that another accusation?

Originally Posted by Deborski

There is more evidence to support that people are born gay, than there is evidence to support that they are not.

Again, where is the proof to that? I'm getting tired of these statements

Originally Posted by Deborski

It isn't criticizing you personally to tell you to stop shouting me down. It's setting boundaries. Criticizing you personally, would be to make some remark about your intelligence or your emotional control, which I have not, and will not, do.

Well, I wasn't criticizing you I was just making boundaries, everything else is just your interpretations.

Why A Video Of A 15-Year-Old Russian Kid Facing Homophobic Bullying Is So Horrific - SFGate

From this article:

In the video, which appears to have been shot in the winter in the suburbs of a Russian city, a 15-year-old boy has been lured to a meeting place by the fictional online persona "Uncle Dima." However, once he is there he is met by a gang of young men and women. These young men and women apparently created a fake "Uncle Dima" account on VK, a Russian social network similar to Facebook, to lure the young boy to the meeting place.

They imply — though it is difficult to trust them — that the boy was planning to have some kind of sexual conduct with "Uncle Dima" in return for the money to buy a laptop.

Clearly under duress, the 15-year-old is then forced to "confess" to being a homosexual. He is forced to reveal his full name, the school he goes to, his parents' names, home address, etc.

Perhaps what is most remarkable about the video is that the gang that attacks the boy clearly feels proud of their actions. A number appear clearly in the video, and while one does wear a mask at one point, this may be more for intimidation. At another point an older lady comes into the frame, and she commends the gang for their actions, and tells the boy to be ashamed of himself.

Warning, video includes strong language and abuse.