Thread: Sochi Olympics and the Law against Gays in Russia +

A more serious thought that occurred to me about the "are people born gay?" question. As Deborski, Lampada, and others living in the States can attest, so-called "ex-gay therapists" who claim that homosexuals can become heterosexual through a combination of prayer, faith, and Freudian psychoanalysis have been controversial for many years. And for the most part, they're controversial because such therapy hardly ever works as promised, and the number of dissatisfied clients goes into the tens of thousands.

For homosexuals who don't want to be homosexual because it conflicts with their religious faith, this ex-gay therapy may indeed help them to avoid homosexual activity, but it doesn't cause them to lose interest in the IDEA of sleeping with persons of the same sex -- nor does it cause them to develop an interest in heterosexual activity. They just become celibate gays, in other words, which is much less than what the ex-gay therapy advertises.

Anyway, I think it's worth noting that the clients of these ex-gay therapists are, in nearly all cases, gay men and women who were raised in extremely conservative religious environments; who spent their childhoods NOT seeing "pro-gay propaganda," and instead listening to preachers talk about how much Jesus hates the wicked sin of sodomy; but for some mysterious reason...

...they turned out totally homosexual anyway, and started to realize when they were 12 or 13 years old or so that falling in love with and kissing and sleeping with someone of the same sex sounded like the greatest possible thing in the entire world. No one put this idea into their head -- in fact, they grew up completely surrounded by the very opposite of this idea -- but they just knew. Or, rather, some unconscious part of their brainstem just knew it was true, automatically, on a level that transcended rational will. (When you're a 13-year-old boy sitting in algebra class, незваная эрекция хуже татарина -- why do so many people have trouble understanding this elementary fact, and what it implies about the alleged "choice" of sexual orientation?)

But anyway, I also wanted to recommend the documentary Trembling Before G-d, about gays and lesbians who came from a family background of so-called Ultra-Orthodox Jews -- also known as the haredim, which more or less means "they who tremble" in Hebrew. Not only are their religious views extremely conservative, but they are also known for their tendency to avoid the "secular" world and its media. In short, they grew up with practically zero exposure to the type of "homosexual propaganda" that the Russian government is trying to shield Russian kids from -- yet, по щучьему велению, they turned out gay.

Anyway, the documentary is made for a "general" audience -- i.e., you don't have to be familiar with gay life or Judaism or Ultra-Orthodoxy -- and it brings up some interesting points about, for example, the difference between "homosexuality" and "gay identity," and also examines the seeming mystery of why some gay people from extremely conservative and vocally homophobic religious cultures attempt to remain inside those cultural structures.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

For homosexuals who don't want to be homosexual because it conflicts with their religious faith, this ex-gay therapy may indeed help them to avoid homosexual activity, but it doesn't cause them to lose interest in the IDEA of sleeping with persons of the same sex -- nor does it cause them to develop an interest in heterosexual activity. They just become celibate gays, in other words, which is much less than what the ex-gay therapy advertises. ...

Какие "homosexual activity"? Тогда какие такие будут heterosexual activity?
Ужасно коробит, когда в разговорах о геях сразу притаскивают секс, как вроде бы это самое главное и отличительное в их жизни.
Мы уже давно знаем, что геи абсолютно обыкновенные люди, и для них, как и для не геев, главное - это встретить настоящую любовь и иметь романтические, серьёзные отношения.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Ужасно коробит, когда в разговорах о геях сразу притаскивают секс, как вроде бы это самое главное и отличительное в их жизни.

Thank you for making this point, Lampada! However, in my post, I wanted to emphasize that people who are attracted to the same sex can make a choice to be "celibate" (is безврачный the correct term, here?) and still be homosexual -- just as people can be celibate and heterosexual. And there are millions of teenagers who are VIRGINS and have never had sexual contact with a person of the same sex nor of the opposite sex -- yet they're still homosexual -- just as there are heterosexual virgins.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Thank you for making this point, Lampada! However, in my post, I wanted to emphasize that people who are attracted to the same sex can make a choice to be "celibate" (is безврачный the correct term, here?) and still be homosexual -- just as people can be celibate and heterosexual. And there are millions of teenagers who are VIRGINS and have never had sexual contact with a person of the same sex nor of the opposite sex -- yet they're still homosexual -- just as there are heterosexual virgins.

Безбрачие (you must use a noun somehow)
Безврачный - is something about Самолечение — Википедия

I would assume that формирование should here be translated with something like "the development of such-and-such an opinion" or "the forming of an idea"? I want to be sure of this because the genitives установок, привлекательности, and представления all appear to connect back grammatically to формирование (unless I misunderstood the sentence grammar).

I wasn't sure about (сексуальные) установки -- perhaps "norms" or "mores"? (Установка is a word I'm more used to seeing in a physical or computing sense.)

Could навязывание be translated as "the forcing (of an idea)"? For example, if a teacher gives "homosexual propaganda" to pupils who aren't allowed to leave the classroom? (We often use the phrase "a captive audience" in English.)

For "установка" , matching words are possibly "aim, guideline".
"формирование" could be "forming", "shaping", "organizing"
"навязывание" - forcing seems to be appropriate word. Do you remember how Баттерс навязывался в друзья к Стэну, Кайлу и Эрику (after Kenny died for real) ?


Not sure about any of words because of my poor, poor English

In short, if very few Russians in Russia have objected to the law -- not counting Russians like Nikolai Alekseev, who naturally shouldn't be counted, since his gay opinions are now punishable by fines -- part of the reason is, perhaps, that they're coming to this topic several decades later than in the West.

Yes! "Мы перебесимся и станем как вы" (из фильма "Курьер")