Thread: Russian Oligarchs

Is it natural a person to possess 8 billions and the other to starve or receive pension of less than 50 euro?

Нет, пенсии в России не высокие, но не настолько. Вот ссылка на табличку о минимальных пенсиях по разным регионам России: Минимальный размер пенсии в 2014г.
В моем регионе минимальная пенсия 6000 руб. в месяц По сегодняшнему курсу рубля к евро это примерно 130 евро. Мой отец получает пенсию 18000 руб. в месяц. Это 390 евро в месяц.

Kind of puts it in perspective, $34,000 in the area I live (New Jersey) is NOT a lot of money.


We are the 1%: You need $34k income to be in the global elite... and half the world's richest live in the U.S. | Mail Online

Scott

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Now that's xenophobia. Some Brits in the area could think the same of Swedes as well, how's that?

Thank God I was raised with the concept that counting other people's money is a mauvais ton, but apparently there are people who don't think so. But tell you what, some poor people in central Africa or countries like N.Korea who live for less than $1 a day would think you guys are oligarchs. Seriously, for many people out there $100K a year is the oligarchic level. So, just because someone's richer than you doesn't mean you should hate them.

In fact, I admire all those making much more money than I do, and I try my best to get up to their level, and I never dream of them getting down to mine, and I would advise you guys to do the same.

By the way, in Russian they have a nice saying about those having a black eye on someone more successful than they are --> "пусть лучше у соседа корова сдохнет, чем самому свою иметь", which literally says "I'd better have the neighbor's cow dead, than mine live and good". Don't be like that!

Is it natural a person to possess 8 billions and the other to starve or receive pension of less than 50 euro?

Ещё менее естественно верить в подобный бред.

Хотя сам вопрос смахивает на коммунистический лозунг.

Originally Posted by SergeMak

First. Yes, there was inheritance in the USSR. In the early years of the Soviet power there was a limit on the cost of property that could be inherited. This limit was canceled in 1926. The rules of inheritance changed few times during the Soviet period, mainly towards widening of the rights of testators and their heirs, simplification of the procedure of inheritance. The last edition for the inheritance law was made in the 60s and this law was in act till 2002. You can read about the history of inheritance in the Soviet Union here 6.
Second. No, there was no such thing as giving back the properties of the pre-Soviet owners. There was a lot of talk about it but the state didn't do anything as far as I know.

Thanks for explaining all that!
What about taxes then? Did people pay taxes in the USSR, or were the "taxes" already taken off the salary before the employee recieved it?
Were there things like VAT? (value added tax)

And who decided the prices, and what was the pricing based on? Based on my limited experience from there, most things were very, very cheap - and I was a kid/teenager so did not come with a lot of money. A few things on the other hand seemed disproportionately expensive. So what were the Soviet prices actually based on? Or perhaps, in a truly socialist economy it didn't actually matter very much what things cost? But there must have been some logic to what prices they set, even if I didn't notice what it could have been.

Belarus has some remnants of this system left, although I think most of it is gone. But if you go into a department store there, you can find a Belarussian swimming costume for $10, perfectly nice one. On the next rack, one from another nearby country, nothing special but costing $100 despite being of identical quality, material and cut. Unless there was a really compelling reason not to, you'd be a fool not to buy the first swimming costume... Obviously $10 cannot be the real price, at the very most it could be material + labour with no profit margin. Probably not even that. But who set the price that low... I bought such a bargain swimming costume and am very pleased with it, used it recently. Also, in Belarus they sell gorgeous icecream for 0.30 EUR. A similar but less tasty icecream in the UK costs 3-4 EUR at least.

Sorry Antonio, I can't write something this complicated in Russian. I actually wrote my long response, because I just assumed you wanted a response in English. If you preferred a response in Russian, lots of people here could have written something much better than me. Apologies, I didn't spot that you mentioned it...

What is the income tax in Russia?
In my country the extremely rich pay a tax of 40%.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Ещё менее естественно верить в подобный бред.

Хотя сам вопрос смахивает на коммунистический лозунг.

Chto znachit slovo smaxivat'?

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Chto znachit slovo smaxivat'?

похож, напоминает
смахивает - разговорное, наверное, сленг

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Ещё менее естественно верить в подобный бред.

Хотя сам вопрос смахивает на коммунистический лозунг.

In a word that the only philosophical schools are capitalism and communism perhaps.
There are thousands of schools of thoughts supporting social justice that don't have any relation with communism.
Except if we consider communistic the systems of the Scandinavians, UK, etc where the super-rich pay extremely high income taxes in order to support a healthy social network, supporting education and social security.
Russia is ages behind regarding this specific issue.
How can one of the richest and most fearful countries of the word to have so many people living under the poverty threshold?
Except if we support Darwinism and the law of the jungle? If Abramovitz and the other guys made millions ... we shouldn't say: Congratulations you are clever and you made them. The state should ask them: How you made all this money? If it was illegally: Confiscation of wealth and immediately jail. Sounds romantic? Nope ... even Italians, one of the less organized nations in Europe, had the balls to say to Mr. Berlusconi you were not legal and you must pay. Except if you consider Russia something totally different from other European Countries, that should have rules more close to the systems of China or India?

Ханна, в Советском Союзе подоходный налог вычитался из зарплаты работника при расчете зарплаты и на руки работник получал деньги уже за вычетом налога. Так что никаких налоговых деклараций заполнять было не надо. Был также такой интересный налог, как налог на бездетность. В народе он назывался "холостяцкие вычеты". Основной доход государство все же получало от налогов с предприятий, а не с граждан. НДС (VAT) в СССР не было. Подробнее о системе налогообложения в СССР можно почитать здесь: [url]http://newsruss.ru/doc/index.php/Налоговая_система_ССС

Originally Posted by fortheether

Kind of puts it in perspective, $34,000 in the area I live (New Jersey) is NOT a lot of money.


We are the 1%: You need $34k income to be in the global elite... and half the world's richest live in the U.S. | Mail Online

Scott

Yeah, my point exactly. Tbh, I would rather think $34K is below average. But I realize it very well that there are people for whom it's a fortune in itself, so saying "that one's evil coz he has a coupla millions and I don't" just makes you look more narrow-minded than you really are.

Налог 13%. Кроме случаев выигрыша в лотерею и некоторых других. Подробнее здесь
Налог на доходы физических лиц

У нас в порядке вещей, когда самые богатые по документам имеют очень маленький доход.
Уральские пельмени • Май-На • 16. Опера «Бедный чиновник»
http://www.gl5.ru/u/uralskie-pelmeni...chinovnik.html

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

How can one of the richest and most fearful countries of the word to have so many people living under the poverty threshold?

who are they people living under the poverty threshold?

I drive around the region where i live a lot. And all the ppl i see who are employed in street cleanin and stuff like that even in small towns are immigrants. When the paperwork to employ an immigrant is a pain. Who are those poor people who refuse to work for >=300 euros?

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Except if we support Darwinism and the law of the jungle? If Abramovitz and the other guys made millions ... we shouldn't say: Congratulations you are clever and you made them. The state should ask them: How you made all this money? If it was illegally: Confiscation of wealth and immediately jail. Sounds romantic? Nope ... even Italians, one of the less organized nations in Europe, had the balls to say to Mr. Berlusconi you were not legal and you must pay. Except if you consider Russia something totally different from other European Countries, that should have rules more close to the systems of China or India?

How state can do anything with them without turning into "evil dictatorship"? Look at Khodorkovsky example. After confiscation and jail he's welcome and loved in Europe "freedom fighter" and "political prisoner". So who has what rules and who's different from what after that?

It was huge American scheme of influence in order to destroy the country in 90s. And you can't just get rid of the consequencies like in 3 or 5 years.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

In a word that the only philosophical schools are capitalism and communism perhaps.
There are thousands of schools of thoughts supporting social justice that don't have any relation with communism.
Except if we consider communistic the systems of the Scandinavians, UK, etc where the super-rich pay extremely high income taxes in order to support a healthy social network, supporting education and social security.
Russia is ages behind regarding this specific issue.
How can one of the richest and most fearful countries of the word to have so many people living under the poverty threshold?
Except if we support Darwinism and the law of the jungle? If Abramovitz and the other guys made millions ... we shouldn't say: Congratulations you are clever and you made them. The state should ask them: How you made all this money? If it was illegally: Confiscation of wealth and immediately jail. Sounds romantic? Nope ... even Italians, one of the less organized nations in Europe, had the balls to say to Mr. Berlusconi you were not legal and you must pay. Except if you consider Russia something totally different from other European Countries, that should have rules more close to the systems of China or India?

Social justice is never made through intimidating and jailing people who don't "fit". I hope any system doing so ends up like Iraq!

Speaking of how it works internally in Russia, as far as I know, after the 1990s, they suppressed a lot of political liberties, but at the same time, they try to keep the economic liberties and market values up and running. That said, as long as you only mind your business making money, and don't get into the politics, you can have as much freedom as in the States. But once you have publicly gotten political, and some of your views have been disapproved by Putin & co. , the consequences for you are undefined. The only difference between Khodorkovsky and those other oligarchs who have been well off in Russia was that the former one was trying to become a political figure, and the others never did that.

Well, at least, sure thing I can say, it could've been much worse. I just hope they in Russia don't start suppressing market liberties as you suggested. The purpose of the state is to ensure well-being for everyone, but not at the cost of others. It shouldn't "ask", "take" etc. , it should "offer", "give", and so on.

It shouldn't "ask", "take" etc. , it should "offer", "give"

Could you explain our state its function? Obviously, Putin sees his mission differently

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

, Interesting facts:
Old soviet directors of giant refineries tended to swim not in Aegean sea, but in cold dirt waters of Irtysh, where normal person would not be able even to approach the river.

out of interest, why would a normal person not be able to even approach the river?

Mostly bank is swampy/oozy/ and/or rushy and/or too steep. And again, Irtysh is too dirty (always) and cold (this season).

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

who are they people living under the poverty threshold?

.

"There are about 5 million homeless people in Russia and of that number, 1 million are children. Studies show that Moscow has the largest share of homeless people in the country, accounting for 10,000 – 50,000 (depending on the source of information). Despite the ever growing number, there remains no social approach to the problem."

United States has better statistics but the situation is about the same.
Conclusion both Russia and USA are more close to the social systems of India, Indonesia, Phillipines etc.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

"There are about 5 million homeless people in Russia and of that number, 1 million are children. Studies show that Moscow has the largest share of homeless people in the country, accounting for 10,000 – 50,000 (depending on the source of information). Despite the ever growing number, there remains no social approach to the problem."

Я подозреваю что это за статистика, и что это за бездомные. Несколько лет назад, когда я продал квартиру и искал другую чтобы купить, я год не имел регистрации и наверное был одним из этих пяти миллионов.
Там где я живу - физически невозможно быть реально бездомным. Ближайшая зима будет последней в твоей жизни.

Я думаю по этой статистике безработные, которые гоняют по Москве на Кайеннах и на выходные летают в Монако, тоже under the poverty threshold

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Mark Twain

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Я подозреваю что это за статистика, и что это за бездомные. Несколько лет назад, когда я продал квартиру и искал другую чтобы купить, я год не имел регистрации и наверное был одним из этих пяти миллионов.
Там где я живу - физически невозможно быть реально бездомным. Ближайшая зима будет последней в твоей жизни.

Я думаю по этой статистике безработные, которые гоняют по Москве на Кайеннах и на выходные летают в Монако, тоже under the poverty threshold

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Mark Twain

Никогда не понимал, почему после падения совка вы не избавились от этого позорного института регистрации...

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Никогда не понимал, почему после падения совка вы не избавились от этого позорного института регистрации...

А вы почему не избавились от него за столько лет?

Хотя мне кажется кто-то здесь путает советскую прописку с вышеупомянутой регистрацией. Но удивляться здесь нечему.