Thread: Russian Oligarchs

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We are awaken, but confused. Putin in fact is on good terms with oligarchs, and any person who does not concede with social injustice publicly, is immediately discredited ("сам он ворюга!")

It is funny how Yeltsin first passed oil, metals, power plants etc to future oligarchs, and then the state bought some property back. But the state by itself does not produce money! So it is excellent procedure to give hundred billions to oligarchs infinitely. Though, highest rank managers of state-owned companies, BTW, have now revenues not less than Ходорковские, Гусинские and others had.
People, who are "honestly rich" are just talented businessmen. One man who managed to sell for example German autos in Moscow, in few months is selling them over whole Russia. Of course, he must be prepared to eliminate possible rivals.
Another man, who was first to deliver furs from Greece to Omsk, had an intention to be the main seller in the next 100 years. Most probably, his business will be taken over by larger company of Moscow in few months.
Water to my flat is supplied by Moscow company (one man collect money from millions), I buy electricity from S.-Petersburg company (another man from other side of the globe), and most good plots of land in Siberian city are somehow "eternally rented" by businessmen from Moscow (our city authorities usually don't want do anything, but even if they wanted, they simply cannot).
This is what I call globalization!
Such artful project was devised by another nice-looking man
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%...%D0%90._%D0%91.
who explained, that property should be in hands of those who knows how to utilize it. You will be very wealthy people soon, - he predicted, - only let's give our industry, transport, and everything else to effective proprietors.
The outcome was somehow predictable: effective proprietors started to sell things to each other and to foreign businesses and build villas all over the Mediterranean.

Interesting facts:
Old soviet directors of giant refineries tended to swim not in Aegean sea, but in cold dirt waters of Irtysh, where normal person would not be able even to approach the river.
Лицкевич, Иван Дмитриевич — Википедия

Meanwhile in USSR times:
You could not bequeath your flat in USSR, because you had not bought it , but "получал" instead (from State). Relatives (children usually) usually could continue to live in the same flat, if they were living there before death of "main inhabitant" (были прописаны).
And conversely, people were buying cars, so could pass them to relatives (I think so, don't remember exactly).

Березовский, Борис Абрамович — Википедия
Владимир Александрович Гусинский биография медиа-магната

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

, Interesting facts:
Old soviet directors of giant refineries tended to swim not in Aegean sea, but in cold dirt waters of Irtysh, where normal person would not be able even to approach the river.

out of interest, why would a normal person not be able to even approach the river?

Meanwhile in USSR times:
You could not bequeath your flat in USSR, because you had not bought it , but "получал" instead (from State). Relatives (children usually) usually could continue to live in the same flat, if they were living there before death of "main inhabitant" (были прописаны).
And conversely, people were buying cars, so could pass them to relatives (I think so, don't remember exactly).

On the other hand you didn't pay a kopeck for the flat received from the state, so it was not ethically right to have such pretensions. Those flats that were built in cooperatives could be inherited as well as private houses with the plots of land. Even land share in collective farms (земельные паи в колхозах) could be inherited. I know it for sure, because my grandparents were колхозники and my father inherited their land share and house with a plot of land.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

...Please you answers if its possible in Russian.

Наверное, никто не заметил эту просьбу.

Originally Posted by Lampada

Наверное, никто не заметил эту просьбу.

Да заметили. Просто первый отвечающий на неё плюнул и пошло - поехало

Is it natural a person to possess 8 billions and the other to starve or receive pension of less than 50 euro?

Нет, пенсии в России не высокие, но не настолько. Вот ссылка на табличку о минимальных пенсиях по разным регионам России: Минимальный размер пенсии в 2014г.
В моем регионе минимальная пенсия 6000 руб. в месяц По сегодняшнему курсу рубля к евро это примерно 130 евро. Мой отец получает пенсию 18000 руб. в месяц. Это 390 евро в месяц.

Is it natural a person to possess 8 billions and the other to starve or receive pension of less than 50 euro?

Ещё менее естественно верить в подобный бред.

Хотя сам вопрос смахивает на коммунистический лозунг.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Ещё менее естественно верить в подобный бред.

Хотя сам вопрос смахивает на коммунистический лозунг.

Chto znachit slovo smaxivat'?

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Chto znachit slovo smaxivat'?

похож, напоминает
смахивает - разговорное, наверное, сленг

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

Ещё менее естественно верить в подобный бред.

Хотя сам вопрос смахивает на коммунистический лозунг.

In a word that the only philosophical schools are capitalism and communism perhaps.
There are thousands of schools of thoughts supporting social justice that don't have any relation with communism.
Except if we consider communistic the systems of the Scandinavians, UK, etc where the super-rich pay extremely high income taxes in order to support a healthy social network, supporting education and social security.
Russia is ages behind regarding this specific issue.
How can one of the richest and most fearful countries of the word to have so many people living under the poverty threshold?
Except if we support Darwinism and the law of the jungle? If Abramovitz and the other guys made millions ... we shouldn't say: Congratulations you are clever and you made them. The state should ask them: How you made all this money? If it was illegally: Confiscation of wealth and immediately jail. Sounds romantic? Nope ... even Italians, one of the less organized nations in Europe, had the balls to say to Mr. Berlusconi you were not legal and you must pay. Except if you consider Russia something totally different from other European Countries, that should have rules more close to the systems of China or India?

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

How can one of the richest and most fearful countries of the word to have so many people living under the poverty threshold?

who are they people living under the poverty threshold?

I drive around the region where i live a lot. And all the ppl i see who are employed in street cleanin and stuff like that even in small towns are immigrants. When the paperwork to employ an immigrant is a pain. Who are those poor people who refuse to work for >=300 euros?

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

Except if we support Darwinism and the law of the jungle? If Abramovitz and the other guys made millions ... we shouldn't say: Congratulations you are clever and you made them. The state should ask them: How you made all this money? If it was illegally: Confiscation of wealth and immediately jail. Sounds romantic? Nope ... even Italians, one of the less organized nations in Europe, had the balls to say to Mr. Berlusconi you were not legal and you must pay. Except if you consider Russia something totally different from other European Countries, that should have rules more close to the systems of China or India?

How state can do anything with them without turning into "evil dictatorship"? Look at Khodorkovsky example. After confiscation and jail he's welcome and loved in Europe "freedom fighter" and "political prisoner". So who has what rules and who's different from what after that?

It was huge American scheme of influence in order to destroy the country in 90s. And you can't just get rid of the consequencies like in 3 or 5 years.

Originally Posted by Alex_krsk

who are they people living under the poverty threshold?

.

"There are about 5 million homeless people in Russia and of that number, 1 million are children. Studies show that Moscow has the largest share of homeless people in the country, accounting for 10,000 – 50,000 (depending on the source of information). Despite the ever growing number, there remains no social approach to the problem."

United States has better statistics but the situation is about the same.
Conclusion both Russia and USA are more close to the social systems of India, Indonesia, Phillipines etc.

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

"There are about 5 million homeless people in Russia and of that number, 1 million are children. Studies show that Moscow has the largest share of homeless people in the country, accounting for 10,000 – 50,000 (depending on the source of information). Despite the ever growing number, there remains no social approach to the problem."

Я подозреваю что это за статистика, и что это за бездомные. Несколько лет назад, когда я продал квартиру и искал другую чтобы купить, я год не имел регистрации и наверное был одним из этих пяти миллионов.
Там где я живу - физически невозможно быть реально бездомным. Ближайшая зима будет последней в твоей жизни.

Я думаю по этой статистике безработные, которые гоняют по Москве на Кайеннах и на выходные летают в Монако, тоже under the poverty threshold

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Mark Twain

Originally Posted by Antonio1986

In a word that the only philosophical schools are capitalism and communism perhaps.
There are thousands of schools of thoughts supporting social justice that don't have any relation with communism.
Except if we consider communistic the systems of the Scandinavians, UK, etc where the super-rich pay extremely high income taxes in order to support a healthy social network, supporting education and social security.
Russia is ages behind regarding this specific issue.
How can one of the richest and most fearful countries of the word to have so many people living under the poverty threshold?
Except if we support Darwinism and the law of the jungle? If Abramovitz and the other guys made millions ... we shouldn't say: Congratulations you are clever and you made them. The state should ask them: How you made all this money? If it was illegally: Confiscation of wealth and immediately jail. Sounds romantic? Nope ... even Italians, one of the less organized nations in Europe, had the balls to say to Mr. Berlusconi you were not legal and you must pay. Except if you consider Russia something totally different from other European Countries, that should have rules more close to the systems of China or India?

Social justice is never made through intimidating and jailing people who don't "fit". I hope any system doing so ends up like Iraq!

Speaking of how it works internally in Russia, as far as I know, after the 1990s, they suppressed a lot of political liberties, but at the same time, they try to keep the economic liberties and market values up and running. That said, as long as you only mind your business making money, and don't get into the politics, you can have as much freedom as in the States. But once you have publicly gotten political, and some of your views have been disapproved by Putin & co. , the consequences for you are undefined. The only difference between Khodorkovsky and those other oligarchs who have been well off in Russia was that the former one was trying to become a political figure, and the others never did that.

Well, at least, sure thing I can say, it could've been much worse. I just hope they in Russia don't start suppressing market liberties as you suggested. The purpose of the state is to ensure well-being for everyone, but not at the cost of others. It shouldn't "ask", "take" etc. , it should "offer", "give", and so on.

What is the income tax in Russia?
In my country the extremely rich pay a tax of 40%.

Ханна, в Советском Союзе подоходный налог вычитался из зарплаты работника при расчете зарплаты и на руки работник получал деньги уже за вычетом налога. Так что никаких налоговых деклараций заполнять было не надо. Был также такой интересный налог, как налог на бездетность. В народе он назывался "холостяцкие вычеты". Основной доход государство все же получало от налогов с предприятий, а не с граждан. НДС (VAT) в СССР не было. Подробнее о системе налогообложения в СССР можно почитать здесь: [url]http://newsruss.ru/doc/index.php/Налоговая_система_ССС

Налог 13%. Кроме случаев выигрыша в лотерею и некоторых других. Подробнее здесь
Налог на доходы физических лиц

У нас в порядке вещей, когда самые богатые по документам имеют очень маленький доход.
Уральские пельмени • Май-На • 16. Опера «Бедный чиновник»
http://www.gl5.ru/u/uralskie-pelmeni...chinovnik.html

It shouldn't "ask", "take" etc. , it should "offer", "give"

Could you explain our state its function? Obviously, Putin sees his mission differently

Mostly bank is swampy/oozy/ and/or rushy and/or too steep. And again, Irtysh is too dirty (always) and cold (this season).

Ну, например, "ны". А потом, сама фраза совершенно неожиданна в том контексте. =))