Thread: RT coverage on gay rights in Russia

Bob, I have stated before and I will state again, that I am not going to be drawn into an argument about gay rights.

I have read your comments on other threads and you clearly oppose gay rights, and you obviously feel very strongly about it and want to argue about it, judging from all the underlining and emphasizing in your comments above as well as the pejorative manner in which you are supposedly "questioning" me. Your crude "examples" do not impress me, nor shock me, nor make me in any way amiable to wanting to discuss this issue with you.

And I clearly support gay rights, and human rights, and I feel just as strongly as you do, and there is nothing you or I can say which is going to change our minds. I see no point in discussing it with you, because this will turn into a back and forth thing which will go on forever. You will post a bunch of links to support your view, and I will post a bunch of links to support my view. The anti-gay crowd will "like" your comments and the people who support gays will "like" my comments, but nothing will change, certainly not your opinion nor mine.

I have stated my opinion and I have no interest in defending it for your entertainment. You can easily google for the "answers" you seek.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Bob, I have stated before and I will state again, that I am not going to be drawn into an argument about gay rights.

Yet, you've said so three times but keep replying.

One thing Hanna said which is accurate and that is the importance placed on this issue. It's a hyped up public relations/political and propaganda-fuelled movement which accomplishes a couple of things. One, a distraction away from other crucial issues and two, it allows this distraction at home (in Russia) to give something for Mr. Pootin to pretend he's strong about issues.

Imho, the best response is to ignore the expression (if you don't like it) and not fund it whatsoever. The mistakes made in the West was to involve the State/Government and promote and fund organizations. For e.g., in schools and parades are paid for by the Government. Once the Government is funding and promoting a 'side', that is where you get your propaganda. Russia doesn't have to concern themselves with that..... um, wait.... Russian State TV (Russia 1 etc.) is showing.... ?????!?? Oh yeah, no one here is commenting on that. Instead, the same rhetoric is repeated (both sides) - so boring.

Originally Posted by 14Russian

Yet, you've said so three times but keep replying.

One thing Hanna said which is accurate and that is the importance placed on this issue. It's a hyped up public relations/political and propaganda-fuelled movement which accomplishes a couple of things. One, a distraction away from other crucial issues and two, it allows this distraction at home (in Russia) to give something for Mr. Pootin to pretend he's strong about issues.

Imho, the best response is to ignore the expression (if you don't like it) and not fund it whatsoever. The mistakes made in the West was to involve the State/Government and promote and fund organizations. For e.g., in schools and parades are paid for by the Government. Once the Government is funding and promoting a 'side', that is where you get your propaganda. Russia doesn't have to concern themselves with that..... um, wait.... Russian State TV (Russia 1 etc.) is showing.... ?????!?? Oh yeah, no one here is commenting on that. Instead, the same rhetoric is repeated (both sides) - so boring.

I agree. But they can only push that agenda at public schools. A lot of private schools (and even some public schools) ignore the gay agenda. My school doesn't even discuss the gay lifestyle.

@ ANYONE THAT WANTS TO UNDERSTAND RUSSIAN LAWS:

What most Americans understand about the new law in Russia:
It's an anti-gay law that Putin imposes on the people and he hopes he can eliminate all the gays in Russia.
That's NOT THE TRUTH but it's what a lot of Americans are saying.

The Truth about the new law in Russia:
The law makes it illegal to promote non-traditional relations for minors. Also, it is a law that agrees with Russian culture and 74% of Russians agree with the law.
Since I plan to go to Russia someday, it's important to understand the language, the culture, and the laws.

This is a collection of information I found online about sex laws in Russia. I removed all positive/negative comments.
If there are any mistakes in the data, please let me know.

A BRIEF LOOK AT THE CURRENT RUSSIAN SEX LAWS:
The age of consent currently stands at 16 since 2003, regardless of sexual orientation.
Male homosexual acts were decriminalized in 1993, -- Female homosexual acts were never considered an issue and "Tomboy" behavior was condoned even in Tsarist Russia.
Transsexual and transgender people can change their legal gender after corresponding medical procedures since 15 November 1997.
Homosexuality was officially removed from the Russian list of mental illnesses in 1999.
Active gay males are allowed to donate blood to blood banks since 16 April 2008.
There is currently no legal recognition of same-sex couples in Russia, and same-sex marriages are not allowed. Public support for gay marriages is 16% in 2013.
Only married heterosexual couples can adopt children together, as a couple. -- Single parent homosexual adoptions were banned 3 July 2013.
Gay people can serve in the military on a par with heterosexual people since 2003. -- They can serve openly but discretion is advised for safety.
There are no laws protecting against discrimination or harassment on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE NEW LAW:
Since 2006, ten regions have enacted a ban on "propaganda of non-traditional relations among minors". As of May 2013:

Ryazan Oblast - since 22 April 2006
Arkhangelsk Oblast - since 22 October 2011
Kostroma Oblast - since 28 February 2012
Saint Petersburg - since 30 March 2012
Magadan Oblast - since 30 June 2012
Novosibirsk Oblast - since 3 July 2012
Krasnodar Krai - since 19 July 2012
Samara Oblast - since 22 July 2012
Bashkortostan - since 5 August 2012 ---- The only region where the law does not include any kind of administrative sanctions or fines.
Kaliningrad Oblast - since 19 February 2013. ---- The bill bans propaganda of non-traditional relations among the entire population, regardless of age.

In June 2012, Moscow courts enacted a hundred-year ban on gay pride parades.
On 11 June 2013 the State Duma (lower legislative house) adopted a federal law banning propaganda of non-traditional relations.
On 26 June 2013 the Federation Council of Russia (upper legislative house) voted in the new anti-propaganda law.
On 30 June 2013 President Vladimir Putin signed the bill into law. -- A bill passed by both houses of the Russian Parliament (see above).

THE INTENT OF THE LAW:

Russia’s Supreme Court upheld a controversial regional ban on “gay propaganda,” (in St. Petersburg) but said it only covers the direct promotion of homosexual relations among minors, LGBT activists said on Thursday.
Informing minors about homosexual relations is also allowed as long as the information remains neutral in tone, the court said in a ruling passed in mid-August but not publicized until this week.

Russian Supreme Court Defines ‘Gay Propaganda’ | Russia | RIA Novosti

^ The problem with this article is that the law says "non-traditional relations" NOT "homosexual relations.". But it should be easy to see that the intent of the new law is only to prevent people from PROMOTING non-traditional relations to minors. That is all.

VIOLATIONS:
On 22 July 2013 it was reported that four Dutch tourists were arrested for discussing gay rights with Russian youths. The four were arrested for spreading propaganda of nontraditional relationships among the under-aged after talking to teens at a camp in the northern city of Murmansk.

INCIDENTS:
Anti-gay violence at the gay pride parades in Russia.
Increased homophobia in Russia has led to several incidences where gay minors have been attacked by Neo-Nazi groups. -- Neo-Nazi groups are illegal under Russian law.
It should be understood that Anti-gay people and Neo-Nazis exist in almost every country. Violence against gay people is world-wide, not just in Russia. It has even been "swept under the rug" by authorities in America - even recently. I can provide news links for those incidents too.

MY CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE SOCHI OLYMPICS:
Unless somebody goes to the Olympics to promote non-traditional relations to underage kids then nobody will be arrested. My advice is to go to the Olympics to watch the Olympics and have fun - not push agendas. Oh, and try to show some gratitude and respect to the country that is hosting the games - Russia.
And let the kids have fun at the games too - without adults pushing sex agendas at them.
Also, those Dutch adults had no right to talk to underage kids about sex. That right belongs to the parents and the schools.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I agree. But they can only push that agenda at public schools. A lot of private schools (and even some public schools) ignore the gay agenda. My school doesn't even discuss the gay lifestyle.

Good post. It seems that the violence and expressed hostility is only a fraction of the population but the mainstream media makes it sound like there's a hostile agenda against that part of the population. Like I said, it is political spin and there's two points here: 1) exaggerated and manipulated political spin and 2) the contradictory position from the Russian government.

Btw, I think those two pictures were beauties to sum up this political forum. The left-wingers always look for strawmen and really can't discuss political issues rationally.

I don't think having 'propaganda' laws are the right approach but it's up to Russians to decide. I just hope Russians don't blame the citizens of other countries when the Governments of those countries speak out against Russia. For instance, Canada's politicians are doing a lot of lecturing right now so I can assure Russians that these clowns are a problem there.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Bob, I have stated before and I will state again, that I am not going to be drawn into an argument about gay rights.

I have read your comments on other threads and you clearly oppose gay rights, and you obviously feel very strongly about it and want to argue about it, judging from all the underlining and emphasizing in your comments above as well as the pejorative manner in which you are supposedly "questioning" me.

I clearly stated I did not mean to insult you in any way. I tried to propose a constructive dialogue with clarifying very specific points. You expressed your opinion in the previous post which leaves many questions which are not clear to me. What I wanted here is to clarify them "step by step". I did not only ask about your own opinion, but I also asked about the way this information is interpreted in your country.
You think I am "supposedly questioning you in a pejorative manner". I am very sorry if you take it this way.
First, I was really interested in your answers. Second, I do not see what is pejorative in my questions to you. I am afraid you did not get my intentions right.

For example, you wrote that many people in the U.S. are afraid the gay athletes can be arrested during the Olympics.
I wrote:
"What makes them think they might be arrested? I hope you have heard about the law statement (that was mentioned many times here), I mean what this law prohibits and what it does not"

What is wrong in my question? I can assume they might be deliberately miss-informed about the meaning of that law. To clarify that, I asked for your opinion:
"You are saying "A lot of people in the US ... fear that gay athletes, tourists, or journalists might be arrested" - are those people in the US deliberately misinformed? What do you think of it? How do the local mass media interpret what is the Russian law about?"

I do not see anything pejorative in these questions again.

I know that you worked in the USSR, and you know about Russia better than most of people in your country. That is why I hoped you do understand that opinion is wrong (fear that someone might be arrested).

Originally Posted by Deborski

And I clearly support gay rights, and human rights, and I feel just as strongly as you do, and there is nothing you or I can say which is going to change our minds.

I think so. You will hardly change my mind, and I will hardly change yours. But I tried at least to understand some logic in your statements. I mainly mean the situation around boycotting the games. Why they think so, and what the mass media are telling there.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I see no point in discussing it with you, because this will turn into a back and forth thing which will go on forever.

That is your right, if you choose not to answer.

Originally Posted by Deborski

You can easily google for the "answers" you seek.

I am not interested in the google opinion. What surprises me here is that the "pro-gay" crowd chose not to notice very obvious things that were mentioned a lot of times. Mainly: Why they think someone is in danger to be prosecuted in Sochi? That is taken for granted in the "pro-gay" posts, but it is as strange as assuming "2 x 2 = 5" without any explanation why.

You wrote you saw my other comments. I would like to ask another question then, but I'm afraid you can take me wrong again... So, let it be a question with no answer. "Did you ever see a post where I wrote that gays are bad, they should not exist, they should not be treated as normal people in the society etc. If yes, then where did I write it exactly?" But OK, it's a rhetorical question then. All I did is relying on logic. It still cannot get why there is any issue with their rights in the sense of this law.

I hope you understand it at least now.