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Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
This is to find out how native Russian speakers feel about people who speak Russian as a foreign language.
In Europe there is a varying degree of "language snobbery" depending on where you are.. A quick run-down:
England is a very tolerant place -- people don't care if somebody has a foreign accent, or even if he makes lots of mistakes when he speaks.
In Germany I have noticed that the expectations of speaking good German are generally much higher. I don't think you could get a good job in Germany unless you could speak good German.
In Sweden too, people are not always sympathetic towards those who use bad grammar or have a strong foreign accent. However this does not apply to people from Northern Europe; Germans, British, Polish, Baltic - since the general view of these nationalities is positive.
I have noticed that French people in Paris get irritated if you cannot express quickly and clearly what you want in French. They sometimes prefer not to speak English either. However I think they are quite tolerant with minor mistakes.
Spain - they are super-nice about bad language and are happy to help people who speak bad Spanish.
But I don't know what the situation is in Russia, Ukraine etc!
I am curious of course, since I am studying Russian. Are people going to laugh at me or ignore me?
--How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?
--Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?
--Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?
--Do you think that the situation with Russian-as-a-foreign-language has changed since the Soviet era? If so, how?
--What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?
--Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.
--What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?
--What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?
--Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?
--What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?
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Random funny person speaking Russian: A female medical student from Asia..
What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AEUfE7YIsU
Funny clip about Russian lessons for Russians... (it's so hard that not even natives can speak it!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nwovxKeMbY
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
--Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?
I live in Kazakhstan, and my physical culture teacher isn't native russian speaker. His native language - kazakh, and when he has mistakes, my schoolmates laugh at him. I don't think, what in Kazakhstan have a tolerant native russian speakers. But... I'm tolerant speaker. Just i know, what is "foreigh language"...
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Thanks Spzena!
Kazakhstan is such a cool country! It has always fascinated me, as far back as childhood, before it became independent. I am going to start a topic and ask some "stupid questions" about it later...
But my impression is that everybody there can speak Russian.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
But my impression is that everybody there can speak Russian. [/i]
In the centre of Kazakhstan are villages, where families don't want speak russian, because they are Kazakh.When i've been in the Hospital, there have one girl. I say: "Как тебя зовут?", but she don't understand me... I was very surprised, because i've think the same as you...
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
--How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?
Quite often really. We have many immigrants from Middle Asia and Caucasus here and they seldom speak good Russian.
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--Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?
Yes, but that's a rare occasion.
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--Do you think that the situation with Russian-as-a-foreign-language has changed since the Soviet era? If so, how?
That depends on the point of view. If we consider all the former Ex-USSR republic as 'foreign' countries then yes, the situation has deteriorated rather dramatically, but if we only count the countries that were 'foreign' some 20 years ago then I think that the situation is the same.
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--What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?
I work in such a company. It belongs to two Armenians and many people there are Armenians. I got used to it and now I hardly pay attention to their mistakes.
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--Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.
Those who are older than 30 years old are probably quite fluent with Russian but with the young people the situation is not so universal.
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--What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?
Generally: from ok to worse to afwul. There are people who speak perfect Russian but again - nearly all of them are of middle age or older and they have learnt the language in the Soviet era.
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--What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?
I met a few Westerners who spoke good-to-perfect Russian but I think I can count them by my fingers on a single hand. Those who speak average Russian are more numerous but still there aren't very many of them. Sometimes I meed a man who thinks that he can speak Russian but I don't understand them for some reason :D
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--Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?
I think not. I haven't noticed that one nationality differs from another in this respect.
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--What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?
Caucasian accent is so common that it became a part of anecdotes. and the accent of the Jews from Odessa is absolutely remarkable, also the accent of people from Baltic states sounds very funny to me.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
--How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?
I think I hardly ever met a foreigner in my life, (if we don't speak about ex-USSR citizens), and note that I'm living in Moscow.
Well, seriously, I met some, but very few times, and communication never was long.
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--Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?
Of course. There some I just know (that is saw them on TV and so on) and I also had a classmate (at the institute), she was Polish, and spoke very good Russian (having been living in Russia for some months only).
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--What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?
I would try to find out if (s)he wants me to correct his/her mistakes and if yes, I'd do it from time to time with explanations. If no, I think I'd consider that person as lazy and/ disrespectful to my language.
Then again, it depends where that person is from. If from US or Europe, or some other distant country, well, in short, if (s)he has recently started to learn Russian, then see my answer above.
But if the person is from ex-USSR - you know, they all know Russian more or less, and they know better than me how to improve it if they want. But actually many people from ex-USSR countries never decided to learn Russian, they just heard it from their childhood and their Russian is enough for them "as it is". It would be even impolite, I think, to try to correct/improve their Russian.
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--What about the Central Asian people who work in Russia - what are their Russian skills generally like?
It depends. Some speak more or less good Russian, some quite bad, and some (who never knew Russian and has only recently arrived in Russia) speak very poorly. They all, however, have an accent which sometimes prevents to understand even those whose grammar and vocabulary is okay.
Oh, and by the way, I live in a brand new block of flats now; the house was build by Uzbek workers, and on every floor you can find an ad about repair works on the walls. My God, how awful they write in Russian!!! :shock: I think they only learn Russian 'aurally', through their aural perception, and in most cases they only approximately know how a word should sound. And actually, that's the way natives learn a language :)
Just an example of those ads:
Рермонт квартиру
Ремонт кирартиру
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--What about Westerners - how often do you meet somebody who can actually speak Russian well?
Actually, Johanna, you don't often (if ever) meet a Westerner in Russia if you don't work with them.
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--Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?
I think... the French.
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--What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?
I don't think any foreign accent sounds good or cool in Russian, especially together with grammatical mistakes (which always go with a foreigner's speech, alas...).
Asian accents often sound just incomprehensible. A very 'American' accent may sound totally incomprehensible, too.
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Random funny person speaking Russian: A female medical student from Asia..
What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.
If I didn't know that she has spent five years in Russia, I'd say that she speaks very good. But five years.... I think she could speak better :)
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
But I don't know what the situation is in Russia, Ukraine etc!
I am curious of course, since I am studying Russians. Are people going to laugh at me or ignore me?
It is difficult to compare because the viewpoint of a native speaker is different from the viewpoint of a foreigner. You need an impression of some foreigners who lived in Russia etc. And I think that situation may be very different in Moscow where are many foreigners and, say, not-so-big town like mine.
Generally if you travel yourself you will have more problems with infrastructure than with language snobism. ExUSSR is still a very bad place for the tourists.
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Are people going to laugh at me or ignore me?
In a town like mine far foreigners (not xUSSR) are still very exotic. So you can expect much friendly attention especially if you show at least some knowledge of the language. At least few words. :) Maybe people will laugh sometimes but it will hardly be abusive. And Sweden is accepted positively. On the other hand you always risk to pay for the same service more than native speakers because the price is often a subject of negotiations and Western Europeans are considered to be rich.
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--How often do you meet foreigners who do not speak good Russian?
There are some Azerbaijan people in the market. They usually speak acceptable Russian though with heavy accent.
There were a series of Chinese students in our college. They tried to keep together and their Russian even after several years was awful (if was at all). I don't know how did they learn.
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--Is the situation different in countries like Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan?
I think Ukraine is more tolerant then Russia to strangers (no matter of language). But my experience is limited.
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--Do you know any foreigners who have learnt Russian and can speak it well?
I know one Chinese with perfect Russian. But he spent here about half of his life (20-30 years).
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--What would you think if you worked with someone who was not Russian and made lots of mistakes when he spoke and wrote in Russian?
Of course I would not be happy if it hinder the work. But if not then no problem. I'd be much more unhappy to work with native speaker with vulgar speech.
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--Can Baltic people usually speak good Russian or not? I have noticed that they always mention "native fluency in Russian" on their CV/Resume.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
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--Are there any nationalities (not ex Soviet) who always impress you with their skills in Russian?
Well, theoretically Slavs have much less problems in learning Russian but I have no good statistics personally. Two Poles I met in train spoke quite good.
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--What foreign accents sound good/bad/cool....?
I like Polish accent, it sounds aristocratic.
There was a humoristic dubbing of the movie "Lord of the rings". Elves there were dubbed with Baltic accent and dwarves with Caucasian one. It was in a very good correspondence with our impression of these accents.
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Random funny person speaking Russian: A female medical student from Asia..
What would you think of her efforts? She has spent five years in Russia.
Not so good for five years. I'd not like to have her as a medic, it would be too problematic to communicate.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by it-ogo
Not so good for five years. I'd not like to have her as a medic, it would be too problematic to communicate.
I dare to suppose that their lessons are heavily shifted toward russian medical vocabulary rather than common 'every day' vocabulary and advanced grammar.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
SPZenA, I am just curious; are you able to speak Kazakh? Is it a difficult language?
(Some English corrections, hope it is helpful! :) )
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I live in Kazakhstan, and my physical [s:5umomegc]culture[/s:5umomegc] education (=PE) teacher isn't a native Russian speaker. His native language is Kazakh, and when he [s:5umomegc]has[/s:5umomegc] makes mistakes, my [s:5umomegc]school[/s:5umomegc] classmates laugh at him. I don't think[s:5umomegc], what in[/s:5umomegc] that Kazakhstan has very tolerant native Russian speakers. But... I'm a tolerant speaker. (??)[s:5umomegc]Just i know, what is "foreigh language[/s:5umomegc]"...
:good: This text was good - you only made a few minor mistakes. Nothing important. But I could not understand the last sentence.
If you read more in English you will get better at understanding when to use "a" and "the".
Haha, I should have written this text in Russian!! You would be laughing your head off right now at all my mistakes....
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Wow such interesting responses.
The comment about the voices that were used for the characters in Lord of the Rings was interesting.
In Scandinavian films "mysterious strangers" often have a Russian accent... For example in films about old times, people with magical powers sound like they are Russian. Also mysterious people whose intentions are unclear (I.e. is the person really good or really bad...?)
I did not know that foreigners were so rare in Russia!
I know an American who worked in Moscow for a while. (But he didn't like it and moved to London..) He couldn't speak any Russian at all.
Lots of Swedish and Finnish people travel to St Petersburg (in particular, but also to Moscow). There is not as much business as there OUGHT TO be between the countries, but still, quite a bit.
(Wait until they hook up the Trans-sib with South Korea and extend it to the Atlantic ports in Norway... Apparently this is planned...)
If Scandinavians speak Russian, they get mistaken for Baltic people... If they don't speak Russian they feel very stupid and immediately get interested in learning it. Most Scandis can say a few silly phrases and words in Russian, but absolutely not have a conversation...
Olya, if / when I visit Moscow I definitely want to see you, if you want - then you will have met a "real" foreigner, albeit perhaps not a very "exotic" one...! :-) Hopefully during 2010, although not in the spring...
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Come one! Come all! :flazhok:
Meet the not very exotic but very real foreigner Johanna! :flazhok:
Sorry...
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by capecoddah
Sorry...
I'm easily amused late at night...
Yes you are... :oops: :roll:
Well maybe that didn't come out quite right but my point was that Sweden (Scandinavia) isn't exactly an exotic place, at least not from a Russian perspective. In fact, a lot of things are very similar.
To me, Russia is cool because it's so similar, yet so different.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
(Some English corrections, hope it is helpful! :) )
Thank you :)
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But I could not understand the last sentence.
Hm. Я хочу сказать, что я толерантна потому, как знаю, что такое - учить иностранный язык.
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SPZenA, I am just curious; are you able to speak Kazakh? Is it a difficult language?
For me Kazakh is very difficult :sad: I've learn Kazakh since 9 years, and i can say only "Сенің атым кім?", it mean "What is your name?"
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
In Scandinavian films "mysterious strangers" often have a Russian accent... For example in films about old times, people with magical powers sound like they are Russian. Also mysterious people whose intentions are unclear (I.e. is the person really good or really bad...?)
It's interesting and strange how much important accents are in foreign languages. In our films, only a foreigner character can speak with an accent. If a film is a tale, a mystic story about people with magical powers, or a film about old times - you never hear any accent there, and it even would be weird to hear it.
Well, as said, an accent in Russian never sounds good, or, at least, it never sounds natural, and in most cases it would be just inappropriate and only would distract your attention from what is being said.
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Olya, if / when I visit Moscow I definitely want to see you, if you want - then you will have met a "real" foreigner, albeit perhaps not a very "exotic" one...!
Johanna, the fact is that any foreigner not from ex-USSR (mmm... and not from Asia, I think) is exotic here.
But please don't understand me as I have never seen foreigners, say, in the streets. It happens quite often. I just mean that a regular Russian hardly communicates with foreigners in his everyday life.
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Originally Posted by Johanna
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(??)[s:1rqwiawi]Just i know, what is "foreigh language[/s:1rqwiawi]"...
This text was good - you only made a few minor mistakes. Nothing important. But I could not understand the last sentence.
SPZenA meant, "I just know what a foreigh language is".
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
Dear Lord, this is absolutely terrifying.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
i wonder if when i'm speaking russian it will be easy to tell that i'm american. I don't know if i have an accent and if it is horrible. I think that accents in English are very cool. My favorite is an Irish accent or Australian. Sometimes i can't even asian accents. Anyway, Merry Christmas Everyone!
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by SouthsideRMK
i wonder if when i'm speaking russian it will be easy to tell that i'm american. I don't know if i have an accent and if it is horrible. I think that accents in English are very cool. My favorite is an Irish accent or Australian. Sometimes i can't even asian accents. Anyway, Merry Christmas Everyone!
You can record something and host the recording somewhere so we could tell.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
I would say the fluent/native Russian speakers on this board are snobs. They don't want to help someone learn. :upset:
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by JohnSmith
I would say the fluent/native Russian speakers on this board are snobs. They don't want to help someone learn. :upset:
Oh, this is funny! We are snobs because we did not wanted to make an audio for you to be able to say in Russian "Your ass is really gorgeous and I want to lick you all over".
Give us a break, will you?
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
hahhaha! "Your ass is really gorgeous and I want to lick you all over" who would want to translate that!?
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Lampada
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Originally Posted by JohnSmith
I would say the fluent/native Russian speakers on this board are snobs. They don't want to help someone learn. :upset:
Oh, this is funny! We are snobs because we did not wanted to make an audio for you to be able to say in Russian "Your ass is really gorgeous and I want to lick you all over".
Give us a break, will you?
Wow, if you read it and did not provide audio, you really are a snob. No will not "give you a break." The forum is not a place for your opinion on the value added quality of a given phrase, simply to speak it audibly.
Don't blame for your non existent sex life. "Lampada"...what a name. Hahaha, oh brother. :roll:
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Иван из космоса
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Originally Posted by Johanna
Dear Lord, this is absolutely terrifying.
Wow. There ARE a lot of pitfalls in Russian (as in any other language), but these lessons look more like extra-help for failed students. There's nothing especially complex about examples which we can see on the board, kids study this at school when they are 10-14 years old. :unknown:
Sadly, due to decreasing quality of education and other factors many native speakers can't spell correctly even to save their lifes. They are butchering Russian language, and they are spreading like a plague. As a result there are more 'language snobs' in Russia and CIS than ever. Most of them are members of this forum. Be warned. ))))
On the other hand Russians are usually much less snobish about mistakes made by RSL learners. There are too few foreigners willing to study Russian to scare them away. :) So you can expect to be encouraged, not berated.
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Wow, if you read it and did not provide audio, you really are a snob.
Hey, do you know what "snob" is?
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by JohnSmith
The forum is not a place for your opinion on the value added quality of a given phrase, simply to speak it audibly.
The forum is for our, natives' opinions about phrases and our wish or unwillingness to 'speak audibly' or not to do that with a phrase. We are not at work here and are not your subordinates so that you could tell us what we must do.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
The fact that this guy sits and resarches such phrases on Christmas Day, really says it all... If he wants to know how to say this properly, let him learn Russian from scratch!
:roll:
Also, I can't imagine it will get any woman, Russian or not, interested in a stranger unless she was paid for it... In which case she's not going to care about your pronounciation anyway.
The native speakers on this forum are fantastically helpful and definitely not arrogant in their view of learners. It is your own request that is arrogant and snobbish!
What makes you assume that Russian speaking women would like to hear this phrase from you? I suggest you start learning basic everyday phrases instead.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
Thanks, Johanna, I really enjoyed this video. This girl is very good. There are minor grammar mistakes (even after 5 years in Russia), but they don't muddle the meaning. Her accent is not strong (it sounds pleasant, in fact), and some words sound almost like they are pronounced by a native speaker. What I liked the most is that despite all the shortcomings her speech feels natural, and not forced.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Yeah, actually she has another video too.
I thought she was an interesting case because she explains in her comments that she travelled to Russia to study medicine in Russian without knowing any more Russian than basic greetings!
Frankly this seems very bold! But the gamble paid off, because five years later she's close to graduation. Personally I had terrible trouble reading Economics litterature in English at university - and that was after years and years of school English and exposure via TV.
If she joined a regular Russian medical school together with native speakers and managed to keep up, then it's really an outstanding accomplishment.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
Yeah, actually she has another video too.
Yeah, I watched all her videos. )
Also while looking for examples of English accent I stumbled upon a video from an Italian guy, who studied Russian for 3 years. His pronunciation is nearly PERFECT, and his Russian is great. :good: I think any RSL learner needs to see this motivating video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeAzNE0RqX4
But I must admit that all Italians I've heard spoke Russian clearly, even if they knew only a few words. It's probably because our languages are rather close phonetically. I've heard the same thing about Venezuelan people.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Interesting!
I understood about 80-90% of what he's saying but I could not speak that fast without making mistakes, unless i had prepared the speech beforehand.
When I feel bold enough (and am able to speak comprehensively ) I will upload a video for you to "judge".
What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian. He's not using any of the "backwards" sounding phrases and expressions that are confusing to people who are not from a Slavic speaking country. I.e. sentences that seem like they start from the end... Also he is not using any colloquial speech or any of the "confusing" expressions that don't make sense in literal translation.... So he is making it rather easy for himself.
I have studied since May now, on and off... In three years time I think I will be able to match his standard, and with a passable pronounciation too.
To me, the bending of the verbs and all the different bending of nouns are the biggest challenges.
Interesting to hear your view that Italians are able to sound good with they speak Russian! When I browsed the Russian videos I came across one with a French girl. She wasn't able to do rolling Rs and it sounded very strange to hear Russian with throat Rs!
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
In Scandinavian films "mysterious strangers" often have a Russian accent... For example in films about old times, people with magical powers sound like they are Russian. Also mysterious people whose intentions are unclear (I.e. is the person really good or really bad...?)
lol I listened to a radio adaptation of "A Hobbit" once and the trolls seemed to speak with a Russian accent... At least, their [r] seemed to be Russian. But then, Spanish [r] is the same as Russian, as far as I know...
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Originally Posted by Johanna
When I browsed the Russian videos I came across one with a French girl. She wasn't able to do rolling Rs and it sounded very strange to hear Russian with throat Rs!
That's what I must sound like -- I have a French [r]. (In Russian to pronounce [r] like this is called "картавить" or "грассировать"). This is not such a horrible defect, though. I know a lot of people who can't pronounce [r] correctly and after being acquainted with them for some time I absolutely stop noticing and sometimes forget altogether that they have any peculiarity of speech. And I never was teased about it at school either. The Russian [r] pronounced with the tip of the tongue is supposed to be the most difficult sound for children to master and if the incorrect pronunciation settles early on, it's very difficult to change. I can pronounce this sound now in separate words but not integrate it in fast speech. The soft/wet [r] is more difficult especially the [ри] syllable. Can't say it for the life of me -- and it's used quite often: in names like Ирина, in words три, рис and so on. So French [r] it is for me.
If you can pronounce the Russian [r], my respect to you, Johanna. :good:
As for the snobbishness question... Since Russian is not widely spoken abroad (except for the ex-USSR countries) and is notorious for its difficulty, I think most Russians would greatly appreciate and encourage anybody who tries to speak our language. Besides, Russians are supposed to be very hospitable. I don't understand where the whole "language snobbishness" would spring at all. :upset: Unless we are talking of capitals like Paris or London where people might be plain tired of hordes of tourists. (I don't know how things stand there, that's just what I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere). :unknown:
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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When I feel bold enough (and am able to speak comprehensively ) I will upload a video for you to "judge".
That would be great. :hlop:
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Originally Posted by Johanna
What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian. He's not using any of the "backwards" sounding phrases and expressions that are confusing to people who are not from a Slavic speaking country. I.e. sentences that seem like they start from the end... Also he is not using any colloquial speech or any of the "confusing" expressions that don't make sense in literal translation.... So he is making it rather easy for himself.
I didn't pay attention to that, I'll need to watch it again. :pardon: But my overall impression was that he's Russian is not overly simplified or 'textbook' Russian, but rather 'ordinary', natural one. He got tired at the end, and made a bunch of serious grammar mistakes, but apart from that it was really impressive. I wish i could learn a language like that in a meager 1,5-3 years (he mentioned in one of his comment that he studied Russian actively only for 1,5 years, and then dropped it)
I believe that with proper motivation and dedication almost anyone can learn any language to near fluent level (the problem is that few people have either). There were articles about a Russian girl who won the first prize in a worldwide Chinese language competition. The punch line is that she studied Chinese only for 2 years (from scratch), and achieved a truly impressive level (Chinese representatives commented that she was close to a native speaker level) ! So... anything is possible.
Personally I am too unfocused and lose interest too fast to master any language, even though I really like foreign languages and have an inkling to learning them (when I tried, I progressed really fast, but.. I always failed because of lack of motivation.. Never moved past lesson 8 in a ny textbook :dunno:). I know English only because I studied it at school and kinda had no choice, and I know Ukrainian only because it's on TV all the time.. :) It is sad, really. So I admire people who learn Russian (or any other language) and who don't give up. Good luck, guys! :flazhok:
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
But I must admit that all Italians I've heard spoke Russian clearly, even if they knew only a few words. It's probably because our languages are rather close phonetically. I've heard the same thing about Venezuelan people.
Italians say that Russian accent is usually hard to understand. :) It makes speech slow and heavy in their opinion. Though for Russian Italian pronunciation is very clear no matter of which language is spoken.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
What he is saying is definitely based on the standard textbook Russian.
Я, бообще, согласен с тобой, но давай не будем слишком строги к нему. Ему не о чём рассказывать, кроме общих мест, а что сделать? Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски, то я бы тоже не знал, что сказать. «Привет, меня зовут так, мне столько лет, я живу там, я очень люблю Россия,... Ой, извините, Россию... А вот я учу русский столько времени... Я говорю и по французскому... Или по-французски? Ах! Русская грамматика самая трудная! и т.п.»
Вместе с тем, он, по-видимому, никак не приготовился, прежде чем снял. А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее. :pardon: Нечестно было бы решить, что я совсем неспособен к русскому языку, судя по тому, как плохо я говорю на нём, когда я не готов.
Так что я бы не заключил из видео, что he is making it easy for himself. Надо бы посмотреть длиннее видео, где он бы не был один, и действительно говорил о чём-нибудь. А он ведь сам говорит, что ему не с кем говорить там по-русски.
(Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Zubr
Ему не о чем рассказывать
:wink:
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Zubr
(Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)
Really? It's very interesting. Thanks for your input! :)
He is speaking Dutch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i269amtNlbs
Johanna, can you tell us if he's any good?
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zubr
Я_ вообще-то_ согласен с тобой, но давай не будем слишком строги к нему. Ему не о чем рассказывать, кроме общих мест, а что _делать? Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски, то я бы тоже не знал, что сказать. «Привет, меня зовут так-то, мне столько-то лет, я живу там-то, я очень люблю Россия,... Ой, извините, Россию... А вот я учу русский столько-то времени... Я говорю и по французскому... Или по-французски? Ах! Русская грамматика самая трудная! и т.п.»
Вместе с тем, он, по-видимому, никак не приготовился, прежде чем снял этот клип (здесь нужно дополнение). А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее. :pardon: Нечестно было бы решить, что я совсем неспособен к русскому языку, судя по тому, как плохо я говорю на нём, когда я не готов.
Так что я бы не заключил из видео, что he is making it easy for himself. Надо бы посмотреть видео подлиннее, где он бы не был один, и действительно говорил о чём-нибудь. А он ведь сам говорит, что ему не с кем говорить там по-русски.
(Я попутно добавлю, что этот парень говорит и по-французски, правда, прекрасно говорит. Ничего в его выговоре не оставляет мысли, что он иностранец.)
Zubr, тебе надо срочно читать современную русскую литературу или смотреть современные фильмы. Ты пишешь на устаревшем русском, как будто это абзац из Лермонтова или Пушкина. Это выглядит довольно странно, и думаю, тебе надо об этом сказать.
Вот, например, этот абзац:
А я заметил, что если начну разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, вначале мне очень трудно выговаривать всякое слово, а после некоторого времени, как заговорюсь, так я совсем забуду, на каком языке говорю. Тут-то я буду говорить без труда, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, а между тем их соблюдая, более или менее.
Я не стала ничего исправлять, потому что представила себе, что это фрагмент из какой-нибудь повести XIX века, и всё показалось правильным. :-) Но сегодня люди так не говорят, такие фразы в сегодняшней речи звучат неестественно. Я бы "перевела" это на современный русский примерно так:
А я заметил, что если [s:1d18a5ak]начну[/s:1d18a5ak] начинаю разговаривать с кем-нибудь по-русски, [s:1d18a5ak]вначале[/s:1d18a5ak] сначала мне очень трудно выговаривать [s:1d18a5ak]всякое[/s:1d18a5ak] каждое слово, а [s:1d18a5ak]после некоторого времени[/s:1d18a5ak] через какое-то время, [s:1d18a5ak]как[/s:1d18a5ak] когда заговорюсь, [s:1d18a5ak]так[/s:1d18a5ak] я совсем [s:1d18a5ak]забуду[/s:1d18a5ak] забываю, на каком языке говорю. [s:1d18a5ak]Тут-то я буду говорить без труда[/s:1d18a5ak] И тогда я говорю легко, не стараясь соблюдать все правила русского, [s:1d18a5ak]а между тем[/s:1d18a5ak] и/но при этом их соблюдая, более или менее.
Фраза "Вздумай я показать своё умение говорить по-русски" тоже звучит устаревше. Я бы сказала "Если бы я решил показать, как я говорю по-русски"
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Lol, my language is Swedish, not Dutch. But Devochka on this forum is from Belgium and her mother tongue is Dutch. She can probably comment.
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
Lol, my language is Swedish, not Dutch. But Devochka on this forum is from Belgium and her mother tongue is Dutch. She can probably comment.
Oh, sorry. :rose:
I thought that you mentioned somewhere that you can speak Norvegian and Dutch a little. I probably misunderstood. :)
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
Oh - you just mixed up Dutch and Danish... It's Danish that I can speak... Just because it's so similar to Swedish.
In fact, the name of the language "Dutch" is incredibly confusing, so it is not surprising that you mixed it up! It sounds nothing like any of the places where it's spoke: Holland, Netherlands, Flanders etc... I have no idea why it has such a strange name...
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Re: Are native Russian speakers 'language snobs' or tolerant?
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Originally Posted by Johanna
Oh - you just mixed up Dutch and Danish... It's Danish that I can speak...
Ahhh.. How embarassing. ^_^ Thanks for the correction. :)