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Thread: Variants of EL

  1. #1
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    Variants of EL

    How much different are Australian, American and Britain languages?

    Whether does an ununderstanding happen?
    What do Britains think of the US and AUS English?
    Do they feel a neglect to the other variants of the language?

    Tell me, please, about differenses of the tongues.

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    "...Важно, чтобы форум оставался местом, объединяющим людей, для которых интересны русский язык и культура. ..." - MasterАdmin (из переписки)



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    Re: Variants of EL

    Here are a few corrections on your english, hope you don't mind:
    How much different are Australian, American and Britain languages?
    How different are ...


    Whether does an ununderstanding happen?
    Do misunderstandings occur?

    What do Britains think of the US and AUS English?

    Do they feel a neglect to the other variants of the language?
    I don't really understand this sentence / я не понимаю

    Tell me, please, about differences of the tongues.
    Regarding the question: I'm a native speaker of american english. From my own observations and interactions i'd say the differences between american english and the rest is:

    a) pronounciation ("schedule")
    b) vocabulary (vacation vs holiday)
    c) colloquial sayings or slang (... i don't have an example)
    d) sometimes spelling (color vs colour)

    I've almost never had trouble understanding the other variants of english. I'd also say that we have variations of english just as wide here in the US (california, the south, midwest, northeast). Again, it's all pretty much understandable. This is so far the biggest difference between english and russian I've found: In russian the pronounciation seems to be very uniform which leads to few accents, whereas in English there are _lots_ of accents. Just in my own state (northeastern part), I could find you a half dozen people who speak with very different accents.

    Jon
    Пожалуйста, исправляйте мои ошибки.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Thank you very much for the links, Lampada.
    And thank you very much, Jon, for the corrections and for the answer. It is interesting for me to know opinions of ordinary people on this questions.

    If you will travel to GB or Australia, will be some small missunderstaning in the daily speech with civilians in this states for you, Jon?
    About my fourth question, I just wanted to ask ,Is it true that Britains like not much other variants of English (US & etc.), and consider its as "inferior". (I'm sorry, if I offend anybody)

    Anatoly

  5. #5
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    Re: Variants of EL

    Hello Anatoly

    About you latest question:

    Some Brits will get frustrated if you use American spelling or terminology, yes - myself included. For example, I don't like the use of the word "vacation" in place of the British English word, which is "holiday". My reason for this is that the dialect spoken in Great Britain is the oldest, and therefore the most original dialect of English. We view British English to be the most "correct", and therefore we get frustrated when the language is used differently. I believe that Americans get equally frustrated if an English speaker uses variations on American English, but I'm not entirely sure on that.

    Now to suggest a few corrections, if you don't mind, Anatoly.

    Quote Originally Posted by colonist
    And thank you very much, Jon, for the corrections and for better: your answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by colonist
    It is interesting for me to know opinions of ordinary people on these questions.
    this = единственное число = этот, эта, это etc..
    these = множественное число = эти.

    Quote Originally Posted by colonist
    If you _ travel to GB or Australia, willthere be any small misunderstandings in everyday conversationfor you, Jon?
    Perhaps by "in this states" you meant "in your state", Anatoly - ie. where Jon lives?

    I just wanted to ask: Is it true that the British don't likeother variants of English very much (US & etc.), and consider its as "inferior"?

    I'm sorry_ if I offend anybody
    Hope the corrections help. Don't hesitate to ask questions if you need help with your mistakes.

    Jack

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    Re: Variants of EL

    As a contrast to what Jack said, I am not offended when people use British English when in America. My point of view is that language is constantly evolving. Every generation sees new words come into use and old words die out. And I'm sure each generation cries foul of these changes just like the previous generation did. (Sorry not trying to start a language war here (: )

    Back to the questions:

    "If you will travel to GB or Australia, will be some small misunderstanding in the daily speech"

    The answer depends on exactly where you go.. If I converse with someone speaking "standard" british english then we both should not have any trouble. I can get the meaning of new words and phrases from the context. On the other hand, if I spoke with someone with a very thick accent perhaps from the countryside who also uses a lot of slang, then it might be more difficult.. In fact, the area where I live has a lot of irish immigrants. If you hang out in the pubs on Friday you will hear English spoken with a very very thick irish accent, it's almost completely unintelligible to me (I can't understand it). Regarding australian english: it depends again on how thick the accent is and how much slang the person uses..

    So Anatoly, tell me this - do you have trouble understanding other russian speakers from different parts of russia/former soviet states? From what i've learned so far, it seems that russian has standard pronunciation which leads to very few accents..
    Пожалуйста, исправляйте мои ошибки.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Quote Originally Posted by noheat
    So Anatoly, tell me this - do you have trouble understanding other russian speakers from different parts of russia/former soviet states?
    I'll answer, too.
    Never! (well, maybe only if the speaker was drunk... )
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Thank you, Jack and Jon for your stories.

    And Olga is right.
    But I will tell a story that took place in the last year with me. I spent a summer in a village at an other region of our country, and I had some little problems with talking with local habitants. They just used dialecticisms (local words) which I didn't know. But I learned its.

    Examples:
    красавИца - сыроежка
    приколка - булавка
    ревун - ручей впадающий в озеро
    бадог - палка
    зыбка - люлька
    вино - вино, водка и всё что содержит алкоголь.
    беремя - охапка дров
    поостыло - похолодало
    казанка - металическая моторная лодка казанского производства.
    и др.
    Иногда случались недопонимания. Они вставляют слово и смысл предложения теряется...

    Anatoly

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    Re: Variants of EL

    I think in villages, especially in some remote ones, dialects really can exist (but not very different from the standart language). But in cities people speak the same language - the same in the Far East, the same in Moscow and Saint Petersburg.

    I can tell you more, guys. Even people in Ukraine and some other former Soviet republics could sound completely like my stairwell neighbours to me. For instance, I heard the "Naftogas" head Oleg Dubina speak in Russian on TV - if not his Ukrainian "г", he would sound completely "standart" Russian to me. I recall the similar stories with other Ukrainians speaking Russian on TV.

    Please correct my mistakes.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    беремя - охапка дров
    Literally "ноша".
    казанка - металическая моторная лодка казанского производства.
    This name had becom nominal, like xerox instead of copier.
    Иногда случались недопонимания. Они вставляют слово и смысл предложения теряется.
    I guess what words they inserts. Actually the sense is not lost, but becomes deeper.
    English as a Second Language by Jeff McQuillan and Lucy Tse.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Quote Originally Posted by JackBoni
    the dialect spoken in Great Britain is the oldest, and therefore the most original dialect of English.
    What you said must be generally true, I wouldn't know, but I've heard that there are things that were preserved in AmE, like they still have "gotten", and spelling like analyZe is older.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    I think in villages, especially in some remote ones, dialects really can exist (but not very different from the standard language). But in cities people speak the same language - the same in the Far East, the same in Moscow and Saint Petersburg.

    I can tell you more, guys. Even people in Ukraine and some other former Soviet republics could sound completely like my stairwell neighbours to me. For instance, I heard the "Naftogas" head Oleg Dubina speak in Russian on TV - if not for his Ukrainian "г", he would sound completely like "standard" Russian to me. I recall [s:2y618718]the[/s:2y618718] similar stories with other Ukrainians speaking Russian on TV.

    Please correct my mistakes.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Many Americans think that an English accent is sophisticated. This only applies, though, to the standard educated London accent (someone can tell me if there is a better term for that accent). Often American advertisements will use an English actor to make their products sound more sophisticated. Americans have no trouble understanding this particular accent.

    On the other hand, I think there is MUCH greater variety in accents in Great Britain compared to the US. On my one visit to London I was surprised at how difficult it was for me to understand many people I passed by. I once asked someone what was the best way to get to Picadilly Circus, and I didn't understand ANYTHING he said back to me.

    There are also several other English speaking countries with their own accents which have not been mentioned: South Africa, Trinidad, Jamaica, and most importantly, India, among others.

    There are also varieties of English spoken by non-native speakers with their own issues. In Japan, for example, most people have studied English in school, but there is a lot of native language interference in pronunciation, so it can be very difficult for native English speakers to understand Japanese English speakers.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Quote Originally Posted by paulb
    On my one visit to London I was surprised at how difficult it was for me to understand many people I passed by. I once asked someone what was the best way to get to Picadilly Circus, and I didn't understand ANYTHING he said back to me.
    Обалдеть! It's impossible in Russia, definitely. So maybe Russia is a sort of phenomenon from this point of view, but it is as it is - modern Russian is quite a uniform language. Sometimes (very often) it's so hard to explain to foreigners...

    What do you mean "sophisticated"? Elegant, graceful?
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Quote Originally Posted by paulb
    someone can tell me if there is a better term for that accent
    Do you mean Received Standard English?
    There are also terms "The Queen's English" and "Estuary English" (the last one is a way of speaking which has features of standard English and of the type of English that is typical of London, used by many people in the south-east of England).
    If you have problems with both posting new messages and sending PMs, you can send an e-mail to the Forum Administrator here:
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    У меня что-то с почтой, на ЛС ответить не могу. (

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Quote Originally Posted by paulb
    On my one visit to London I was surprised at how difficult it was for me to understand many people I passed by. I once asked someone what was the best way to get to Picadilly Circus, and I didn't understand ANYTHING he said back to me.
    Обалдеть! It's impossible in Russia, definitely. So maybe Russia is a sort of phenomenon from this point of view, but it is as it is - modern Russian is quite a uniform language. Sometimes (very often) it's so hard to explain to foreigners...

    What do you mean "sophisticated"? Elegant, graceful?
    Katzner says: искушенный, утонченный, изысканный

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    Re: Variants of EL

    It's impossible in Russia, definitely. So maybe Russia is a sort of phenomenon from this point of view, but it is as it is - modern Russian is quite a uniform language.
    But many people use this morden Russian day by day. It's not so simply to force someone "speak Russian", when you can't understand, what he try to explain you.
    And how about south (Krasnodar and may be most part of Black Sea coast)? They really use another words than for example in Siberia. And they accent it's more look like the Ukrainian than the Russian.
    And the Ukrainian it's not the Russian or some dialect of it. It's another language! Some russians (included me)may be can understand what say at East of Ukrain, but not at West. Because it's really different languages, I know what I say because I tried to study it.

    And about Japannies))) They so funny! They make as mistakes as make I. And in real we talking about something with less problems than with my american friend. mmm But I think good language it's better than comfort dialogue.
    In Japan, for example, most people have studied English in school, but there is a lot of native language interference in pronunciation, so it can be very difficult for native English speakers to understand Japanese English speakers.
    I think they have such pronunciation becase many english words they use in daily life. And ofcouse they pronunce it like Japannies not English. It's seem like hmmm for example "monitoring", when we use it in Russian it's sound like "мониторинг".

    I know that text have more than one mistake. Каюсь, грешен!
    I'm only doll with dark eyes without soul. I can't fall in love it's bad. But I can not feel hurt - it's good. And I can't be conscience-stricken, but I don't know it's bad or not.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Quote Originally Posted by kottoo
    It's impossible in Russia, definitely. So maybe Russia is a sort of phenomenon from this point of view, but it is as it is - modern Russian is quite a uniform language.
    But many people use this morden Russian day by day. It's not so simply to force someone "speak Russian", when you can't understand, what he try to explain you.
    I'm afraid I do not quite understand your point, and especially your "but".

    And how about south (Krasnodar and may be most part of Black Sea coast)? They really use another words than for example in Siberia.
    Could you provide some examples please? I've been to the Black Sea coast, and I never had any problems with understanding people there.

    And they accent it's more look like the Ukrainian than the Russian.
    The only "Ukrainian" thing in their speech is the "г" and the "-ов" at the end of words, i.e. pronunciation. But not everyone in the south speaks like that.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Not evreone, but I met some))
    Could you provide some examples please? I've been to the Black Sea coast, and I never had any problems with understanding people there.
    Examples.... I should remember.
    Ok! When we was in a trip, we visited my mothers freinds. An they used something in their speach, which was strange for me (I'm sorry but I really don't know how it right to write this words, because I could only heared it):
    хиба - разве (really) (Хиба вы еще не видели нашего саду? - Are you really not see our garden yet? )
    шукать - искать (to search) (Я шукаю фотографии - I'm searching photo)
    трошки - немного (a little)
    чукать - ждать (wait) (НУ, ребятки трошки чукаем, да идем без него крутолобого. (упрямого - pig-headed) - Well, We will wait him a little and will go without this pig-headed boy)
    In bracket I typed some frases, which I can remember from that time.
    Оля, if you can understand such speach I really envy you. But I could not withot my parents help.

    Ох, да! Чую тут ошибок опять тьма. Извините и исправьте их пожалуйста. Спасибо
    I'm only doll with dark eyes without soul. I can't fall in love it's bad. But I can not feel hurt - it's good. And I can't be conscience-stricken, but I don't know it's bad or not.

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    Re: Variants of EL

    Leaving the stile as it is here is what it might look like; native English speakers may disagree though.
    Examples I can remember.
    Ok! When we were on a trip, we visited my mother’s friends. There was something in their speech that was strange to me (I'm sorry but I really don't know if I write this words correctly, because I could only hear them):
    хиба - разве (really) (Хиба вы еще не видели нашего саду? – Haven’t you really seen our garden yet? )
    шукать - искать (to search) (Я шукаю фотографии - I'm searching for a photo)
    трошки - немного (a little)
    чукать - ждать (wait) (НУ, ребятки трошки чукаем, да идем без него крутолобого. (упрямого - pig-headed) - Well, We’re going to wait for him a little longer and then go further without that pig-headed boy)
    In brackets I typed some phrases which I can remember from that time.
    Оля, if you can understand such speech I really envy you, as for me I could not without my parents help.

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