Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 54 of 54

Thread: pronunciation question - silent "t"

  1. #41
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toto, we're back in Kansas! Oh, Crap!!!
    Posts
    663
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow1
    Shadow1...

    Please accept my apology. I saw the word, but did not notice that it was a hyperlink for a definition. You were trying to teach.

    This was my mistake. I'm sorry.

  2. #42
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Invalid City!
    Posts
    1,347
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry

    Use a word wrongly... wrong location... wrong pronounciation... in the wrong way or tone... can cause misunderderstandings, problems, and fights. This happens all over the world.

    I'm sorry, but this is a reality in a multi-linguistic environment.
    Can you describe an example where a foreigner using a slightly non-standard pronunciation of an English word could conceivably cause anything more than a very slight missunderstanding?

  3. #43
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toto, we're back in Kansas! Oh, Crap!!!
    Posts
    663
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by scotcher
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry

    Use a word wrongly... wrong location... wrong pronounciation... in the wrong way or tone... can cause misunderderstandings, problems, and fights. This happens all over the world.

    I'm sorry, but this is a reality in a multi-linguistic environment.
    Can you describe an example where a foreigner using a slightly non-standard pronunciation of an English word could conceivably cause anything more than a very slight missunderstanding?
    "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...

    Several drunk touring Americans, several drunk Scots, sitting in a Madrid pub... situation getting out of control... there was a football game... Liverpool/ Chelsea I remember... the Scots were trying to 'explain' football to the Yanks... the Yanks were getting insulted (drunk as they were), and misinterpreted several of the words... Scots got insulted... they all took it outside on a side street in Madrid, outside my local watering hole.

    English, all English, but in opposing dialects... nasty fight began... it took several of us, including 3 English teachers, to calm it down between the Scots and the Yanks. A few bloody noses, cuts, and bruises nothing more serious. But my best mate got hit and hurt.

    No reason for it. No reason for any of the violence. And it was all because of language misunderstandings.

    This is mild... but I've seen much worse, much of it caused by language misunderstanding. I won't discuss them here.

  4. #44
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,607
    Rep Power
    16
    "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...
    So what was the misunderstanding? If someone's calling you a wanker, your fist should rightfully and forcefully connect with that person's jaw.

    What you fail to realise, Dobry, is that what applies to situations that arise in conversations among native speakers doesn't apply to situations with language learners. In those cases it is blatantly obvious that the speaker is a foreigner . At worst he will embarrass himself. Besides, it isn't possible for a language learner to use "street smarts" as you chose to call them for he/she lacks the language confidence and proficiency as well as the phonetics of a native speaker that those "street smarts" require. His foreign accent/choice of words etc. will be sticking out like a sore thumb anyway.

    PS One might as well picture the following dialogue
    between a French visiting student (FVS) and a Yorkshire Farmer called Giles (YFCG):

    FVS: Ow ofTen duss eet rain 'ere in zee summer?
    YFCG: Say wha'?!
    FVS: Ow ofTen duss eet...
    YFCG: Wha'? Ya foockin toff of a posh, stoock oop foreign poof!
    Show yourself - destroy our fears - release your mask

  5. #45
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,607
    Rep Power
    16
    Dobry, in case you didn't know, most Russians are nails and aren't afraid of getting into a pub brawl or two (the knuckledusters on my both hands are making it very hard for me to type, so please excuse my typoes). Yet somehow most of us have managed to enjoy our pints while speaking our broken English completely unaware of those mysterious "street smarts" and without getting into any sort of bother.
    Show yourself - destroy our fears - release your mask

  6. #46
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toto, we're back in Kansas! Oh, Crap!!!
    Posts
    663
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine

    I don't search for fights... while you enjoy your fight, I will walk home with a good woman.
    This was a short-shot from me... I'm not sure you know what it is to be in a serious fight... watch a friend die, or a friend dying. I never want to wish this thought on anyone. I'm sorry.

    Go in peace, VM.

  7. #47
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Invalid City!
    Posts
    1,347
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry

    "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...
    Are you offering an example, or calling me names?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    Several drunk touring Americans, several drunk Scots, sitting in a Madrid pub... situation getting out of control... there was a football game... Liverpool/ Chelsea I remember... the Scots were trying to 'explain' football to the Yanks... the Yanks were getting insulted (drunk as they were), and misinterpreted several of the words... Scots got insulted... they all took it outside on a side street in Madrid, outside my local watering hole.

    English, all English, but in opposing dialects... nasty fight began... it took several of us, including 3 English teachers, to calm it down between the Scots and the Yanks. A few bloody noses, cuts, and bruises nothing more serious. But my best mate got hit and hurt.

    No reason for it. No reason for any of the violence. And it was all because of language misunderstandings.
    I don't buy that it was because of a language misunderstanding. I'd say it had more to do with

    a) No-one likes a drunk Yank.
    b) Drunk Scots like everyone except drunk English and drunk Yanks, whom they despise.
    c) Drunk people are violent and tribal.
    b) Young male Brits seem to like to fight when they're abroad and drunk.
    e) Nothing in the history of the universe has ever been more likely to start an argument than a European discussing football with an American.

    Now, I could believe that a language misunderstanding provided the initial spark than started the conflagration, but I doubt that it directly caused it. With those ingredients, a 'square-go' was always going to be the unavoidable end result.

    What your anecdote actually tells us is that it is better to avoid groups of drunk people, Scots in particular, which may well me universally good advice, but has little to do with language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    This is mild... but I've seen much worse, much of it caused by language misunderstanding. I won't discuss them here.
    Then don't discuss them here, make one up instead. Invent a situation where a foreigner using a slightly non-local-standard pronunciation (the 't' in often, or the second 'i' in 'aluminium', the 'r' in 'world', etc etc) would cause any sort of discord, ruckus, or grave offence.

  8. #48
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,607
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    I'm not sure you know what it is to be in a serious fight...
    You think you're nails and have been in many fights, but the fact is you haven't been in any if you believe they start because of a foreigner failing to use "street smarts" on top of his thick foreign accent. This is how fights start:

    A: Oi! Are you looking at me?
    B: No, I wasn't...
    A: What did you say?
    B: I didn't say anything...
    A: What, you f...in' starting?!
    Show yourself - destroy our fears - release your mask

  9. #49
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toto, we're back in Kansas! Oh, Crap!!!
    Posts
    663
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by scotcher
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry

    "Wanker" immediately comes to mind...
    Are you offering an example, or calling me names?
    Alcohol-fueled fights are often started by misunderstandings. And yes, some of them that I was in were because of hate and anger. Dialects were the excuse... but the wrong words were the "gasoline on the fire."

  10. #50
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toto, we're back in Kansas! Oh, Crap!!!
    Posts
    663
    Rep Power
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    I'm not sure you know what it is to be in a serious fight...
    You think you're nails and have been in many fights, but the fact is you haven't been in any if you believe they start because of a foreigner failing to use "street smarts" on top of his thick foreign accent. This is how fights start:

    A: Oi! Are you looking at me?
    B: No, I wasn't...
    A: What did you say?
    B: I didn't say anything...
    A: What, you f...in' starting?!
    You haven't lived in many places in the world, have you VM??

    Are you recommending don't use "street smarts", wherever you are in the world?? Now, you only want to argue.

    There are many places that I'm not welcome because I'm an American... and there were fights in some places only because I possess an American accent. I'm not going to discuss my scars with you. You don't know me... you don't know where I've been, and what I've seen.

    And no matter what I say, you will always disagree, you will always argue with me... even if I treat you with a mother's kindness. So, again, bye.

  11. #51
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,607
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    You haven't lived in many places in the world, have you VM??
    Actually, I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    Are you recommending don't use "street smarts", wherever you are in the world??
    Yes, I am. I am recommending don't stuff your head with BS because as a language learner you will always be identified by your accent and your so-called "street smarts" require the fluency and command of a native speaker to roll off your tongue naturally. Stick to just learning the language the way thousands have done before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    There are many places that I'm not welcome because I'm an American... and there were fights in some places only because I possess an American accent.
    So why didn't you drop a "street smart" or two? I'm sure a streetwise expression in the local vernacular laced with your thick foreign accent would've done the trick, LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobry
    And no matter what I say, you will always disagree, you will always argue with me...
    If you keep saying things I disagree with, I certainly will. Why am I agreeing with Scotcher?
    Show yourself - destroy our fears - release your mask

  12. #52
    Почтенный гражданин
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toto, we're back in Kansas! Oh, Crap!!!
    Posts
    663
    Rep Power
    13
    VM,

    I'm glad you and Scotcher agree... the stuff of friendships.

    I'm sorry that you and I disagree, and that you dislike me so much.

    Friendships are often born from disagreement and dislike. These can be the most true.

    Anyway, if you are ever near my home... the door is open... there's food... you are always welcome... we can debate, discuss and argue... and you'll have a safe place to sleep. Please don't take this lightly... it's sincere from the heart, and from respect.

  13. #53
    Властелин
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Invalid City!
    Posts
    1,347
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine
    Why am I agreeing with Scotcher?
    Only 'cos you can't logically argue with both me and Dobry at the same time, and you were arguing with him first.

    You gimboid.

  14. #54
    Завсегдатай
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,607
    Rep Power
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by scotcher
    Only 'cos you can't logically argue with both me and Dobry at the same time, and you were arguing with him first.

    You gimboid.
    Logically? When did I care for logic? Goit.
    Show yourself - destroy our fears - release your mask

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. Pronunciation of "ничего хорошего", "лунного"
    By Pretty Butterfly in forum Pronunciation, Speech & Accent
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: April 6th, 2010, 01:40 AM
  2. The neverending question of "ли"or "если"...
    By Lynn in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: April 3rd, 2010, 04:58 PM
  3. a pretty basic question about the "prepositional" case
    By jameschen in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: December 22nd, 2009, 08:20 AM
  4. Very basic and perhaps stupid question "Net" and "ne"
    By slylie in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: December 12th, 2009, 12:00 PM
  5. Pronunciation of the verb "to explain"
    By alexm in forum Pronunciation, Speech & Accent
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 8th, 2009, 12:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary