Thread: pronunciation question - silent "t"

Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

What the hell is "chavs?"

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

VM...

You missed the point completely, and you're traveling on an off-topic tangent now... I said nothing about English-speakers traveling or living in Russia. I wrote specifically about living and working in the U.S.

...this discussion forum is specifically English for Russians... I was addressing native Russians living, working, speaking in England, U.S, Canada, Australia, etc.... not Americans living, working and speaking in Russia.

Anyway... the point is that even native English speakers need to be careful with English dialects in certain areas of the U.S. If I sound harsh about certain areas of the U.S... I'm sorry... but it's for safety reasons, and common sense here.

Enough said... I'm giving a solid here... if you want to get yourself into dangerous situations, here in the U.S...

For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

Originally Posted by Dobry

I wrote specifically about living and working in the U.S. .... I was addressing native Russians living, working, speaking in England, U.S, Canada, Australia, etc....

That was only half of what you wrote.

Originally Posted by Dobry

I said nothing about English-speakers traveling or living in Russia.... not Americans living, working and speaking in Russia.

Oh really? Shall I rewind to the place where you were saying the following:

don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

Why would a Russian person want to sound like a Texan when in Russia/Europe? And if he/she does, why will it be worse than, say, sounding like someone from Chicago? No one in those parts (Russia/Europe) will see any frikkin difference other than the person sounds like an American (if their accent is THAT good).

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Originally Posted by Dobry

I wrote specifically about living and working in the U.S. .... I was addressing native Russians living, working, speaking in England, U.S, Canada, Australia, etc....

That was only half of what you wrote.

Originally Posted by Dobry

I said nothing about English-speakers traveling or living in Russia.... not Americans living, working and speaking in Russia.

Oh really? Shall I rewind to the place where you were saying the following:

don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

Why would a Russian person want to sound like a Texan when in Russia/Europe? And if he/she does, why will it be worse than, say, sounding like someone from Chicago? No one in those parts (Russia/Europe) will see any frikkin difference other than the person sounds like an American (if their accent is THAT good).

I was referring to Americans, or anyone, trying to use a false accent... this was my intent and meaning.

VM... you've got a real chip on your shoulder... I don't know where it comes from or why it exists... anyway, please try to show respect toward other people.

I've never called you an idiot... no person on this forum should ever be called an idiot. We're all trying to learn from each other.

Also, Charlestonian asked a legitimate question... you, instead of answering in a kind way, you chose to stab him.

He asked an honest question... you stabbed him. I don't understand your attitude... I don't understand your hate.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

"For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("Chav is a derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

Originally Posted by charlestonian

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

"For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("Chav is a derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

I've heard it only once or twice... in pubs.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Ultimate lesson... soften or strengthen your speech depending where you are. Be true to yourself and your language... but use "street smarts" and be careful... don't try to sound like a Yank, when you're in the U.S., Europe, or in New Orleans... and don't try to sound like a Texan when you're in Russia, Europe, New York, Chicago, etc... especially if you're not a Texan.

You're an idiot if you think that many chavs in Russia (or Western Europe for that matter) will tell by your accent in English that you're from Texas. If you get a whooping it won't be on account of your Texan accent, it will be on account of your American accent (for chavs with PhD in linguistics) or simply for sounding foreign (for 99.9999% of the chavs you might encounter). The world is much bigger than you think.

I think you owe Dobry an apology

Originally Posted by charlestonian

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

"For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("Chav is a derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

My for crying out loud was not about your not knowing the word "chav", it was in reference to the fact that you've got the Internet at your fingertips yet you couldn't be arsed (another British expression) to frikkin well use it! Anyone would've got the answer just like that but no, not our mister charlestonian, he's too lazy to use Google.

PS On second thoughts, your avatar explains it.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Originally Posted by charlestonian

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

"For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("Chav is a derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

My for crying out loud was not about your not knowing the word "chav", it was in reference to the fact that you've got the Internet at your fingertips yet you couldn't be arsed (another British expression) to frikkin well use it! Anyone would've got the answer just like that but no, not our mister charlestonian, he's too lazy to use Google.

PS On second thoughts, your avatar explains it.

Your insults are absolutely uncalled for.

When you encounter an unfamiliar word, just "wikipedia" it and you'll get a fine and deep explanation...

Originally Posted by charlestonian

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Originally Posted by charlestonian

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

For crying out loud, charlstonian, you've got the Internet at your fingertips. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

"For crying out loud", this is a British expression ("Chav is a derogatory slang term in the United Kingdom which appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005[1][2"), and I have never heard it in the USA. Kill me.

My for crying out loud was not about your not knowing the word "chav", it was in reference to the fact that you've got the Internet at your fingertips yet you couldn't be arsed (another British expression) to frikkin well use it! Anyone would've got the answer just like that but no, not our mister charlestonian, he's too lazy to use Google.

PS On second thoughts, your avatar explains it.

Your insults are absolutely uncalled for.

chav

MasterAdmin,

I think the question sits with you.

Certain members of the forum are searching for creative ways to insult and hurt other forum members... the use of "chav" is the latest, and it is an insult in colloquial English.

What is board policy? Allow insults to pass freely between all the cultures that use these forums? "Chav", in my opinion, is used specifically in this thread as an insult to cause a insultive reaction on the forum... and "Chav" is NOT being used for humor, NOR for education.

Will these forums cease to become a method of learning languages, political/cultural/social debate... and instead devolve into name-calling and hate-driven insults among some of the members?

Disagreement and debate, for education and learning are good... but there needs to be an element of intercultural moderation... and respect for each member. "Chav" doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by shadow1

chav

Shadow1?? Are you wanting to join in the insults also?

Originally Posted by Dobry

Originally Posted by shadow1

chav

Shadow1?? Are you wanting to join in the insults also?

(c)For crying out loud, Dobry, didn't you see that it was a link to Urban Dictionary? shadow1 gave you a link to this page - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chav&r=f It explains the meaning of "chav". OK, shadow1 was a bit late in providing a link to an explanation of the word chav, but you cannot blame him for that. I'm sure you noticed that the word "chav" in shadow1's post was in a funny colour - that made me think and instead of throwing a tantrum, I rolled my mouse pointer over it and discovered it was a link. Either you're still somewhat unversed in the ways the interface on this forum works or you're simply being mean towards shadow1. I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt.

The idea that a Russian should tailor his pronunciation to the vagaries of the English dialect specific to his destination is quite ammusing, and it's one that keeps coming up, but I can assure you it would be totally pointless in 99% of situations.

Not dropping the 't' in 'often' (or whatever other minor dialectical distinction you care to mention) isn't going to mark you as an outsider, your blindingly obvious thick foreign accent is! No-one is going to hear a non-local-standard pronunciation behind that!

Even if your English pronunciation is 'perfect', at best you are going to sound like an English-speaker from some other part of the English-speaking world.

Either way, at no point is anyone ever going to hold that 't' against you.

Originally Posted by scotcher

The idea that a Russian should tailor his pronunciation to the vagaries of the English dialect specific to his destination is quite ammusing, and it's one that keeps coming up, but I can assure you it would be totally pointless in 99% of situations.

[...]

Either way, at no point is anyone ever going to hold that 't' against you.

Glad to hear that.
And thanks for staying ON TOPIC, scotcher!

Scotcher, that was the best post to come out of you for years. You hit the nail on the head.

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Originally Posted by scotcher

The idea that a Russian should tailor his pronunciation to the vagaries of the English dialect specific to his destination is quite ammusing, and it's one that keeps coming up, but I can assure you it would be totally pointless in 99% of situations.

[...]

Either way, at no point is anyone ever going to hold that 't' against you.

Glad to hear that.
And thanks for staying ON TOPIC, scotcher!

And I agree... this was my original point. Don't try to tailor your English to the destination... but be aware there are dangers in certain dialects and usage, in certain areas of the English-speaking world. Use "street smarts", "common sense".

Use a word wrongly... wrong location... wrong pronounciation... in the wrong way or tone... can cause misunderderstandings, problems, and fights. This happens all over the world.

Don't go trying to hug and show love to a polar bear with her cubs.

I've stopped, controlled, and calmed many barfights, all over the world, from these misunderstandings. And I've never called anyone an 'idiot' in the process.

I'm sorry, but this is a reality in multi-linguistic environments.