Thread: Perfect English (A question to native English speakers)

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Originally Posted by Ramil

scotcher is right. I used the term 'Perfect English' just to put _ stress on the fact that I want to find_ preferably interesting texts to read which may be considered 'Perfect' in the sense that they are grammatically correct and use modern vocabulary and idioms.
The main difficulty I have when selecting texts is that I don't know whether a picked one shoud be viewed as an example of _ correct language usage.
I may read a text written by native an English speaker but I wouldn't know whether his speech was correct or not. I have no criteria.

Originally Posted by Ramil

My thought exactly so I asked because I needed _(some) advice.



Russian grammar is tolerant to such things so most _books (good books I'd say ) are written with ... well... acceptable grammar.
Consider - we don't care about the word order neither do we have articles. Prefixes which are _a nightmare to foreigners don't present any problem because Russian native speakers (and writers) use them instinctively. That would have incorrect spelling (an editor's problem) and style remaining. A bad author has a poor vocabulary and constructs simple sentenses so it's very boring to read them.


Thanks Dobry - you're really Добрый An answer I've been waiting for.



That's another question I needed an answer to.

P.S. You've forgot to mention _ Chinese English. I could curse for a week about it.

I've never encountered these two. _sheer luck maybe.

Bloody articles man! I'm so glad there aren't any in Russian.

Originally Posted by basurero

Bloody articles man! I'm so glad there aren't any in Russian.

Basurero - you're killing all hopes in me Thanks anyway.

Great list of books and great advice, Dobry. Thank you very much.
I think, that when ESL learners ask for help in studying "perfect English" they just mean the want to talk as grammatically correct as possible, and they want their English to be colourful, descriptive and with good turn of phrase.
I believe the books you mentioned will help.

I still can't choose what version of English should I learn - BE or AE. What do you think? Traditional answer is "learn the version of the country you're going to live in/to visit etc." But I'm not going anywhere, so... That advice doesn't help.

How go you think is it possible for average ESL learner (not a genius) to learn AE and BE equally good and just switch between them when needed?
I know main differencies in spelling between these two, some differencies in grammar and quite a lot pairs of words that mean the same in UK and USA (like elevator/lift, underwear/pants etc.) because at school we studied British English and watching movies I spoiled it with american slang a bit. So now my English is a horrible mess.
Should I try to "separate" BE and AE or just to "forget" one of them?

It doesnt even really matter. If you speak American english, south african english, or hong kong english, or that god forsaken Canadian "english"... English is english and you'll be understood where ever it is that you go.

Im American, and i'd advise you to learn british english.

1, Because, when you go to britian, people wont think you're a stupid wanker.
2, When you go to American, people will LOVE your accent! And they will ask you if you are from luxemburg!

If you learn american english,

1, no one in america will care
2, no one in the rest of the world will like you.

Yeh lol. It annoys me when foreigners learn American english for no reason. I mean, being born with an accent like that's fair enough, but who would CHOOSE to speak like that?

LOL
Thanks, guys. But I'm afraid I'll not live long enough to develop natural British accent, and I've heard on a few occasions that Russians with their bad English accent are hilarious.
PS. Please fell free to correct my mistakes.

I like English pronounciation more. But people say when they hear me talking English that my accent is rather German than Russian. Maybe this is a consequence of my attempts to learn German in school.
I even speak a little. Ich heisse Ramil, Ich lebe in der Soviet Union in die Stadt Moskau.

Originally Posted by Ramil

But people say when they hear me talking English that my accent is rather German than Russian.

Probably people think Russian accent means rolling "r" and terrible "th" sound. My pronouncation is far from native speaker's but usually people say it's not "russian". Once I was even told I sound like a Canadian. I wonder what does it mean?

My brother-in-law says I also speak more like a German than an Englishman. But I'm constantly trying to get rid of those "r" and a habit of saying "Щ" instead of "Ш" in for example word "shиt".

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Originally Posted by Ramil

But people say when they hear me talking English that my accent is rather German than Russian.

Probably people think Russian accent means rolling "r" and terrible "th" sound. My pronouncation is far from native speaker's but usually people say it's not "russian". Once I was even told I sound like a Canadian. I wonder what does it mean?

Canadians talk like their mom and dad are also their brother and sister.

If you've ever seen the simpsons on english, Ned flanders is a good example of how canadians talk.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

It doesnt even really matter. If you speak American english, south african english, or hong kong english, or that god forsaken Canadian "english"... English is english and you'll be understood where ever it is that you go.

Im American, and i'd advise you to learn british english.

1, Because, when you go to britian, people wont think you're a stupid wanker.
2, When you go to American, people will LOVE your accent! And they will ask you if you are from luxemburg!

If you learn american english,

1, no one in america will care
2, no one in the rest of the world will like you.

Dogboy makes a good argument for studying British English.
I agree with him, for the same reasons.

Actually, it also depends how you will use English. Mainly for conversation? Or academic research? Or business?

If for business, University, or for technical work, then I would suggest AE, as British business and technical English is a little "off" at times, and AE is the most common for international business, the computer industry, manufacturing, etc.

If mainly for general use, reading and conversation, then AE or BE, yes Dogboy is right. Most English speakers will understand you for these purposes. Vocabulary and usage, especially with books, are the major differences between AE and BE.

Your accent and pronounciation will be a big factor though in being understood wherever you are. And if you study BE with a teacher who has a strong accent, and you develop the same strong accent, then you may have difficulty being understood. I have seen this problem happen many times. I can barely understand some Irishmen, or highlands people from Scotland, and from Birmingham, U.K. A friend of mine, one of the best English grammar teachers I know in Madrid, is from rural Scotland. She is an excellent and brilliant teacher, but her accent is so strong I (also her intermediate/upper-intermediate students) often have to ask her to repeat herself... several times sometimes, to understand her. So, she will often teach beginning students grammar, working together with an American teacher for good, clear pronounciation.

I've had many foreign speakers say that AE is actually much easier to understand than BE, because AE's accents tend to be milder than BE, except in a few selected areas... such as Charlestonian's trailer park.

Anyway, good luck.

Originally Posted by charlestonian

Originally Posted by Ramil

I like English pronounciation more. But people say when they hear me talking English that my accent is rather German than Russian. Maybe this is a consequence of my attempts to learn German in school.
I even speak a little. Ich heisse Ramil, Ich lebe in der Soviet Union in die Stadt Moskau.

(задущевна так паёт): Союз нерушимый республик свабодных!!!!

Сплатила навеки великая русь...

@Dobry,
Thanks for tha props!

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