Thread: Oy, Britishers, help me out here!

Originally Posted by RobbHammack

Originally Posted by Евгения Белякова

What is your native language RobbHammack?

Hard as it may be to believe, American English!
I've just started to study the Russian alphabet, but I think your forum name in translit would be Yevgeneya Belyakova ? is that somewhat close?
(I'm doing it from memory here - about an hours study yesterday)

--Robb

Yes, you are almost right: Yevgeniya Belyakova

Translit style depends on context, and personal preferece.
At uni, I have to use the hideous American Library Congress system, in which case it would be:
Evgeniia Beliakova
For everyday use, her name would most likely be:
Yeveniya / Yevgenia Belyakova

Another example:
Борис Ельцын. The first time I saw this is cyrillic, I was like "who's that?" until I reliased, it was Boris Yeltsin:
In the American Library Congress system it is: Boris El'tsyn.
If you showed that to a non-Russian speaker, it's most likely they wouldn't recognise it.
Yeltsin is a more phonetically based transliteration, used for mass-media and general popular culture.

Transliteration is a annoying though. Do you know how akward it is to find information in English on Максим Горький???
Gor'kii
Gor'kiy
Gorky
Gor'ky
Gorki
Gor'ki
etc.

Originally Posted by TATY

Yes, you are almost right: Yevgeniya Belyakova

Ahhh... I suppose it's because of the position in the word (stress
) that и transliterates to an i rather than a long e? Do you know any good links for determining what is stressed in a word you don't know? I mean, is there any rule that covers general cases?

--Robb

There are no strict rules for transliteration; Yevgeneya Belyakova is as good a transliteration as Yevgeniya Belyakova, Jevgenija Beljakova, Evgenia Beliakova, and so on. Given that most English-speakers pronounce "ey" as "ee", it works fine.

"I" in transliteration almost always represents long "e", and "e" short "e"(this is a rule in almost every transliteration of any language). This is so people won't be confused between the two types of "e." So if you see the name "Dmitri", don't pronounce it "Dmitrai."

Originally Posted by Pravit

There are no strict rules for transliteration; Yevgeneya Belyakova is as good a transliteration as Yevgeniya Belyakova, Jevgenija Beljakova, Evgenia Beliakova, and so on. Given that most English-speakers pronounce "ey" as "ee", it works fine.

"I" in transliteration almost always represents long "e", and "e" short "e"(this is a rule in almost every transliteration of any language). This is so people won't be confused between the two types of "e." So if you see the name "Dmitri", don't pronounce it "Dmitrai."

Yes, but in translits to English, И going to E is very dodgey.
I think Robb got confused between the way he was taught that И "is pronounced like a long e, as in feet" and it's transliteration as I.
Remember И in Ukrainian and Belorussian is I.
But anyways, because in English pronunciation is so messed up, there will always be problems.

In other languages, i.e. Spanish, they can get close pronunciations due to there regular spelling. Also, as in Spanish vowels are accented to indicate stress, stress can be conveyed.

E.g. in Spanish, Ивaн would be written Ivan (Because due to Spanish stress rules, the stress would be on the A anyway).
But Владимир would be Vlad

There was a woman in my French class who'd make zero effort to shed her Aussie accent. No, I'm not saying one's native accent should be undetectable. I'm merely saying that the target language's pronunciation should be. She'd say "s'il vous plait" as "seal voo plate", and "merci beaucoup" as "muhr seee booo kooop". I can't stress enough the whininess and flagrant Aussie un-Frenchness of her accent. No matter how many times the teacher told the whole class not to stretch the 'eee' and 'ooo' vowels to the end of the bloody earth, and to not hit the end consonants, this woman would continue to do so. It would be utterly incomprehensible to someone in France. Everytime she spoke, I'd ask her, in my head, "Why are you even here?. Are you going to make a cultural leap or not?". Perhaps I should have asked aloud, because I don't think the teacher pressed the issue enough to her. I think this woman was under the false impression that she was, infact, speaking French. I speak English AND French now... and she was speaking neither.
I tried to be patient with her, but she just didn't seem to be even trying to meet the language half way, so it 'pissed me off no end', just as you with that Russian student. Just a little effort is all I need to see, inorder to not be pissed-off by such cases.

Originally Posted by brett

There was a woman in my French class who'd make zero effort to shed her Aussie accent. No, I'm not saying one's native accent should be undetectable. I'm merely saying that the target language's pronunciation should be. She'd say "s'il vous plait" as "seal voo plate", and "merci beaucoup" as "muhr seee booo kooop". I can't stress enough the whininess and flagrant Aussie un-Frenchness of her accent. No matter how many times the teacher told the whole class not to stretch the 'eee' and 'ooo' vowels to the end of the bloody earth, and to not hit the end consonants, this woman would continue to do so. It would be utterly incomprehensible to someone in France. Everytime she spoke, I'd ask her, in my head, "Why are you even here?. Are you going to make a cultural leap or not?". Perhaps I should have asked aloud, because I don't think the teacher pressed the issue enough to her. I think this woman was under the false impression that she was, infact, speaking French. I speak English AND French now... and she was speaking neither.
I tried to be patient with her, but she just didn't seem to be even trying to meet the language half way, so it 'pissed me off no end', just as you with that Russian student. Just a little effort is all I need to see, inorder to not be pissed-off by such cases.

I can't stop imagining Kath and Kim speaking French now.

Originally Posted by brett

I can't stress enough the whininess and flagrant Aussie un-Frenchness

"muhr seee Bloody booo kooop, mate! "

DDT's got a signature now! Is that the slogan on the car license plates in the State of The Food Is Not Bad Really? If so, where on earth do you fit the bloody license number?

Numbers? We don't need no steenking numbers!

Originally Posted by DDT

Originally Posted by brett

I can't stress enough the whininess and flagrant Aussie un-Frenchness

"muhr seee Bloody booo kooop, mate! "

jaaa beet dans laa roo Raiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirmzy.

That last bit looked Arabic. Ramses' street. I guess Ramsy St. was once inhabited by Egyptians, till Kylie and Jason moved in. I'd have probably moved out , too. You guys watch that show more than we do. I asked my next-door neighbour last week, and he said it's still running. And no, not re-runs. I mean... it's still going!
As an Aussie, I'd just like to say " "!

Originally Posted by brett

That last bit looked Arabic. Ramses' street. I guess Ramsy St. was once inhabited by Egyptians, till Kylie and Jason moved in. I'd have probably moved out , too. You guys watch that show more than we do. I asked my next-door neighbour last week, and he said it's still running. And no, not re-runs. I mean... it's still going!
As an Aussie, I'd just like to say " "!

It is very popular here. It is shown on BBC1 (the main BBC channel) at 1:45 and repeated at 5:35 I loves it.

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBOURS SHOULD BE THERE FOR ONE ANUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURTHER, THATS WHEN GOOD NAAAAYBOURS BECOME GOOOOOD FRAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRNDS

Are you taling about that Aussie sit-com "nieghbours" is that show still going, or is it in Reruns now? Is the character played by Warren Blondell still on?

Originally Posted by DDT

Are you taling about that Aussie sit-com "nieghbours" is that show still going, or is it in Reruns now? Is the character played by Warren Blondell still on?

I am actually watching it right now.

Really? I have not seen it in years. Well actually I hardly ever watched it but Warren used to be a friend of mine in real life. The last thing that I remember him telling me is that he was going to join the Bondi Beach Fire Department. He was tired of the TV crowd.