Thread: modal verbs

I've got a little problem with using modal verbs such as can/could, may/might. Could you help me out, please
For example, what's the chief difference between following sentences:
1. He may have had her phone number
2. He may have her phone number
3. He might have had her phone number
4. He might have her phone number

can I change one of these sentences to
"It's possible that he had her phone" or "It's probable that he had her phone"

thanks in advance!!!

Originally Posted by Chuvak

I've got a little problem with using modal verbs such as can/could, may/might. Could you help me out, please
For example, what's the chief difference between following sentences:
1. He may have had her phone number
2. He may have her phone number
3. He might have had her phone number
4. He might have her phone number

The difference between may/might have had and may/might have is that the first two suggest it was possible in the past and not the present.

People often confuse 'may have' and 'might have'. 'May have' should be used only when you are not sure whether or not something happened. If you want to say that at some time in the past it was possible for something to happen but in fact it did not, use 'might have'.

can I change one of these sentences to
"It's possible that he had her phone" or "It's probable that he had her phone"

Yes.

I am not sure for certain, but I think you use probable when something is more likely than when you would use possible.

Originally Posted by Chuvak

can I change one of these sentences to
"It's possible that he had her phone" or "It's probable that he had her phone"

IMHO, "might have" = "it's possible"

"He might have had her phone number" = "It's possible he had her phone number"

"probable" = "there is a high possibility", "it is very likely"
"probable" has a different meaning that "possible".

'May' usually indicates that someone allowed/allows something to happen as in: 'May I have a cookie?' or 'You may leave now'. May and Might are frequently intechanged however so while you 1st sentence is not exactly correct it sounds like normal speech. The 2nd sentence sounds more like someone allowed him to have her phone number than your intended meaning. The 3rd and 4th sentences are correct with the only difference being #3 indicates that if he had the number he no longer does while #4 indicates he might still have it.

i'm not sure that there really is a difference.. but may is more ambiguous. true, might has other meanings too (like power, for example), but you should be able to understand the usage based on the fact that its role in the sentence would be a verb.

however, upon looking at answers.com:

1.
1. Used to indicate a condition or state contrary to fact: She might help if she knew the truth.
2. Used to indicate a possibility or probability that is weaker than may: We might discover a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
2. Used to express possibility or probability or permission in the past: She told him yesterday he might not go on the trip.
3. Used to express a higher degree of deference or politeness than may, ought, or should: Might I express my opinion?

in the first definition, if you said She may help if she knows the truth. = speaker doesn't know if she knows the truth or not. in She might help if she knew the truth = she would help, but she doesn't know the truth, so she can't help you

in the second definition, yeah I would say might is a little weaker than may, but not too much

third definition: past tense of may... not actually "might" here

fourth definition: well I guess, but it's pretty rare, and another usage of the modals (politeness)

1. He may have had her phone number
Может быть у него был её телефон / Может быть он знал....


2. He may have her phone number
Может быть у него её телефон / Может быть он знает...
ОR
You can give him her phone number:

"A man is on the phone asking for Sarah's phone number."
-"Why does he want it?"
"He wants to tell her her husband is dead"
-"He may have her phone number" (e.g., He can have her phone number/ you are allowed to give it to him)



3. He might have had her phone number
Same as 1.

4. He might have her phone number
Может быть у него её телефон / Может быть он знает...


Might = Может быть
May = Может быть OR можно (can)

I may go to the cinema = I might go to cinema = Может быть, я иду в кино.

BUT:

May I open the window = can I open the window = Можно открыть окно?

Nowadays people will say "Can I open the window" more than "May I..", however some people don't like it because really
Can = physically possible
May = allowed

Like "can I open the window" if you are pedantic actually means "if I try to open the window, will it open"

"May I open the window" = "Is it permitted for me to open the window".

"Can I lift up this rock" = Am I strong enough to lift up this rock?
"May I lift up this rock" = Am I allowed to life up this rock?

I had a teacher at school. And if you said "Can I take off my blazer", he'd say "Well I assume so, you have hands and I assume the garment is not glued to you. Do you mean to say 'May I take off my blazer'"

Bastard.

I had a teacher at school. And if you said "Can I take off my blazer", he'd say "Well I assume so, you have hands and I assume the garment is not glued to you. Do you mean to say 'May I take off my blazer'"

Bastard.

Were it not for his attention to detail, maybe you wouldn't be the person you are today

tdk

As though wearing a blazer to school isn't bad enough...

In contemporary usage, may and might are almost identical. Sentences 2 and 4 are exactly the same thing in English.

With 1 and 3, though, the "may" seems to indicate possibility, while the "might" would indicate conditionality. 4--"He might have had her phone number (if he had asked for it)." 2 and 4 could both be taken as a past possibility, but 4 could be taken as a conditional while 2 could not.