Thread: Irregular read

1. I have read the book.
2. I read the book.

The first one is absolutely clear but the second one freaks me out. Is it a present or past tense; who knows. Is there are some reasons to write exactly like that? This word has another pronunciation in past tense and I can't understand why it isn't written as 'red'.

For example:
1. I have red the book.
2a. I read the book. (present)
2b. I red the book. (past)

Originally Posted by BETEP

why it isn't written as 'red'.

Because red is a colour

Kid's verbal joke...
Q: What is black and white and read all over?
A: A newspaper!

I know some English children that have learnt the following list, and many English speaking adults that haven't

Base Form - Simple Past Tense - Past Participle
_______________________________________

awake awoke awoken
be was, were been
bear bore born
beat beat beat
become became become
begin began begun
bend bent bent
beset beset beset
bet bet bet
bid bid/bade bid/bidden
bind bound bound
bite bit bitten
bleed bled bled
blow blew blown
break broke broken
breed bred bred
bring brought brought
broadcast broadcast broadcast
build built built
burn burned/burnt burned/burnt
burst burst burst
buy bought bought
cast cast cast
catch caught caught
choose chose chosen
cling clung clung
come came come
cost cost cost
creep crept crept
cut cut cut
deal dealt dealt
dig dug dug
dive dived/dove dived
do did done
draw drew drawn
dream dreamed/dreamt dreamed/dreamt
drive drove driven
drink drank drunk
eat ate eaten
fall fell fallen
feed fed fed
feel felt felt
fight fought fought
find found found
fit fit fit
flee fled fled
fling flung flung
fly flew flown
forbid forbade forbidden
forget forgot forgotten
forego (forgo) forewent foregone
forgive forgave forgiven
forsake forsook forsaken
freeze froze frozen
get got gotten
give gave given
go went gone
grind ground ground
grow grew grown
hang hung hung
hear heard heard
hide hid hidden
hit hit hit
hold held held
hurt hurt hurt
keep kept kept
kneel knelt knelt
knit knit knit
know knew know
lay laid laid
lead led led
leap leaped/lept leaped/lept
learn learned/learnt learned/learnt
leave left left
lend lent lent
let let let
lie lay lain
light lighted/lit lighted
lose lost lost
make made made
mean meant meant
meet met met
misspell misspelled/misspelt misspelled/misspelt
mistake mistook mistaken
mow mowed mowed/mown
overcome overcame overcome
overdo overdid overdone
overtake overtook overtaken
overthrow overthrew overthrown
pay paid paid
plead pled pled
prove proved proved/proven
put put put
quit quit quit
read read read
rid rid rid
ride rode ridden
ring rang rung
rise rose risen
run ran run
saw sawed sawed/sawn
say said said
see saw seen
seek sought sought
sell sold sold
send sent sent
set set set
sew sewed sewed/sewn
shake shook shaken
shave shaved shaved/shaven
shear shore shorn
shed shed shed
shine shone shone
shoe shoed shoed/shod
shoot shot shot
show showed showed/shown
shrink shrank shrunk
shut shut shut
sing sang sung
sink sank sunk
sit sat sat
sleep slept slept
slay slew slain
slide slid slid
sling slung slung
slit slit slit
smite smote smitten
sow sowed sowed/sown
speak spoke spoken
speed sped sped
spend spent spent
spill spilled/spilt spilled/spilt
spin spun spun
spit spit/spat spit
split split split
spread spread spread
spring sprang/sprung sprung
stand stood stood
steal stole stolen
stick stuck stuck
sting stung stung
stink stank stunk
stride strod stridden
strike struck struck
string strung strung
strive strove striven
swear swore sworn
sweep swept swept
swell swelled swelled/swollen
swim swam swum
swing swung swung
take took taken
teach taught taught
tear tore torn
tell told told
think thought thought
thrive thrived/throve thrived
throw threw thrown
thrust thrust thrust
tread trod trodden
understand understood understood
uphold upheld upheld
upset upset upset
wake woke woken
wear wore worn
weave weaved/wove weaved/woven
wed wed wed
weep wept wept
wind wound wound
win won won
withhold withheld withheld
withstand withstood withstood
wring wrung wrung
write wrote written
===========

I've no idea who thinked that list up - some crazy lunatic.......

2. I read the book.
- I would say that this sentence is past tense. Because no English speakers would really say "I read the book" meaning in present tense. You would say, "I am reading the book." Right?
-Женя

Originally Posted by майк

Because red is a colour

It doesn't hurt me. You definitely saw a saw, before.

Originally Posted by майк

I know some English children that have learnt the following list, and many English speaking adults that haven't

Is there a big problem with irregular verbs in England?

Originally Posted by майк

I've no idea who thinked that list up - some crazy lunatic.......

It should be a kinda language evolution. I guess, somebody, who knows about ancient English grammar, could answer my 'why'.

Originally Posted by BETEP

It doesn't hurt me. You definitely saw a saw, before. :

Ah, I see! I have seen the saw you saw.....

A kids tongue twister, I saw Esau sitting on a see-saw, how many S's in that?

(Trick question, because 'that' is spelt T H A T so the answer is NONE!)

A mistake often made by young children is to form the past tense by adding -ed. So, spelled rather than spelt, or builded rather than built. Also things like brung rather than brought.

Originally Posted by Евгения Белякова

2. I read the book.
- I would say that this sentence is past tense. Because no English speakers would really say "I read the book" meaning in present tense. You would say, "I am reading the book." Right?
-Женя

Present (Simple Present): I live in London
Present Progressive: I am living in London
Present Perfect Progressive: I have been living in London
Present Emphatic: I do live in London
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Я живу в Лондоне

Present Tense
=========
I ride my bike
I read a book
I work in London

Present Progressive
=============
I am riding my bike
I am reading a book
I am working in London

You can also say "I read a book every week", but in this case the word "read" is pronounced differently:

I read [pronounced reed] a book every day.
Я читаю книгу каждый день.

I read [pronounced red] a book every day.
Я читал книгу каждый день.

Originally Posted by майк

Present (Simple Present): I live in London
Present Progressive: I am living in London
Present Perfect Progressive: I have been living in London
Present Emphatic: I do live in London
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Я живу в Лондоне

Not so fast!

Present (Simple Present): I live in Riga = Я проживаю в Риге.
Я сейас в Хельсинки, но проживаю я в Риге.

Present Progressive: I am living in Riga = Я живу в Риге.
Я сейчас живу в Риге, хотя мой дом в Хельсинки.

Present Perfect Progressive: I have been living in Riga = Я пожил в Риге.
Мой дом в Риге, но я пожил здесь в Хельсинки некоторое время.

Present Emphatic: I do live in Riga = Я действительно живу в Риге.
- Последний раз спрашиваю "где ты живёшь?".
- Я действительно живу в Риге.

Originally Posted by Евгения Белякова

I would say that this sentence is past tense. Because no English speakers would really say "I read the book" meaning in present tense. You would say, "I am reading the book." Right?

I have many trips and I have put my favorite book in my bag. I read the book when I have time for the reading.

Originally Posted by BETEP

I have many trips and I have put my favorite book in my bag. I read the book when I have time for the reading.

But it is clear from the context here that "read" is in present.

Originally Posted by Friendy

But it is clear from the context here that "read" is in present.

That's right! Did you see the question of Евгения Белякова?

Originally Posted by BETEP

Present (Simple Present): I live in Riga = Я проживаю в Риге.
Я сейас в Хельсинки, но проживаю я в Риге.

I would say "Я живу..." in both sentences. Проживать and жить are 2 different verbs, the first one at least is too official.

Present Perfect Progressive: I have been living in Riga = Я пожил в Риге.
Мой дом в Риге, но я пожил здесь в Хельсинки некоторое время.

I would use "Я жил.." here too. "Я пожил..." sounds little odd to me. If you said about completed repeated action in the past such as Я пожил в Риге, потом в Таллине, потом в деревне Гадюкино it would be quite well.

Originally Posted by BETEP

Did you see the question of Евгения Белякова?

I did. I think Женя meant "I read the book" as a standalone sentence. It seems to me it is always unambiguous which tense is implied, either from the context or because the other tense can't be used in this case. Any examples disproving this are greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by JJ

Present Perfect Progressive: I have been living in Riga = Я пожил в Риге.
Мой дом в Риге, но я пожил здесь в Хельсинки некоторое время.

I would use "Я жил.." here too. "Я пожил..." sounds little odd to me.

I think it sounds odd because of the past tense, but it can be used in the future tense, for example:
Мой дом в Риге, но некоторое время я поживу в Хельсинки.
Мой дом в Риге, но некоторое время я решил пожить в Хельсинки.

Originally Posted by JJ

Я пожил в Риге, потом в Таллине, потом в деревне Гадюкино

Наверное веселее всего жить было в деревне Гадюкино.

I read the book – impossible to tell, in isolation, whether this sentence is in the present or past tense.

Originally Posted by BETER

I read the book when I have time for the reading

I would say, 'I read the book when I have time for reading' or if there is no particular book that has been referred to, ‘I read a book when I have time for reading’ - (Compare - I read the book when I had time for reading).

Regarding ‘I have been living in…’

Originally Posted by JJ

I would use "Я жил.." here too

I live in London. I have been living in London all my life. And I still live here. Present Perfect Progressive tense > This is a present tense construction used for actions begun in the past, which are likely to continue in the future. If I had stopped living in London I would say, ‘I lived in London’; ‘I have lived in London’; ‘I used to live in London’; ‘Until recently I was living in London’ or ‘I had been living in South London until I moved to the East End’: that's "Sarf Landon mate - naw mean!".

Originally Posted by JJ

I would say "Я живу..." in both sentences. Проживать and жить are 2 different verbs, the first one at least is too official.

English and Russian are different languages with different structures. I just tried to show nearest analogies for those expressions.

- Я живу в Риге.
- Но я вижу тебя в Хельсинки уже месяц.
- У меня отпуск и я живу у родственников в Хельсинки, но проживаю я в Риге.

May be 'проживать' sounds little formal but it’s the best I could bethink. I think 'проживать' is only a form of 'жить'.

жить – прожить – проживать
мыть – промыть – промывать
лить – пролить – проливать
ехать – проехать – проезжать
ломать – проломать - проламывать

I would use "Я жил.." here too. "Я пожил..." sounds little odd to me. If you said about completed repeated action in the past such as Я пожил в Риге, потом в Таллине, потом в деревне Гадюкино it would be quite well.

'Я жил' is not right translation of 'I have been living in Riga'. What do thing about 'Я пожил в Риге' = 'I was living in Riga'? The prefix 'по-' makes me feel verbs as continue action.

Originally Posted by Friendy

I think Женя meant "I read the book" as a standalone sentence.

OK. Cut all unbolded words because everybody does is in chat.
Another thing is Евгения told about 'would say'. If you say 'I read the book' it's always clear because pronunciation is different for present and past tenses.

Originally Posted by Friendy

Наверное веселее всего жить было в деревне Гадюкино.

I didn't live in Гадюкино but some little Russian places are really great.

Originally Posted by майк

I would say, 'I read the book when I have time for reading' or if there is no particular book that has been referred to, ‘I read a book when I have time for reading’

I guess I have put my favorite book in my bag.

Originally Posted by майк

Compare - I read the book when I had time for reading

That's pretty clear. I bolded the part which can be extracted.

Originally Posted by майк

I live in London. I have been living in London all my life. And I still live here.

That's the culture difference. Russian would say in this situation 'Я прожил в Лондоне всю мою жизнь'. May be it is close to 'I have been living' but it doesn't mean this man in London right now.
- Я прожил в Лондоне всю мою жизнь, а неделю назад мне пришлось вернуться в Москву.

Originally Posted by BETEP

Originally Posted by JJ

I would say "Я живу..." in both sentences. Проживать and жить are 2 different verbs, the first one at least is too official.

English and Russian are different languages with different structures. I just tried to show nearest analogies for those expressions.

- Я живу в Риге.
- Но я вижу тебя в Хельсинки уже месяц.
- У меня отпуск и я живу у родственников в Хельсинки, но проживаю я в Риге.
May be 'проживать' sounds little formal but it’s the best I could bethink. I think 'проживать' is only a form of 'жить'.

Still 'проживать' sounds weird in spoken language, I would say: У меня отпуск и я живу у родственников в Хельсинки, но вообще-то я живу в Риге.

[quote:1cpiectp]I would use "Я жил.." here too. "Я пожил..." sounds little odd to me. If you said about completed repeated action in the past such as Я пожил в Риге, потом в Таллине, потом в деревне Гадюкино it would be quite well.

'Я жил' is not right translation of 'I have been living in Riga'. What do thing about 'Я пожил в Риге' = 'I was living in Riga'? The prefix 'по-' makes me feel verbs as continue action.[/quote:1cpiectp]
жить is a rather "universal" verb, it can show continuous action too. The correct translation for "have been living" is жить in present.
I have been living here since February. - Я живу здесь с февраля.
We have been living here for a long time – Мы живём здесь уже давно.