Thread: double negative

Originally Posted by Vadim84

P.S. What is Ebonics?

From Merriam-Webster Online (http://www.m-w.com):
(noun) A nonstandard variety of English spoken by some American blacks -- called also Black English vernacular.

I'm blunt. I can't not to be blunt.

No, that would never be correct. Try one of these:

I'm blunt. I have to be blunt.
I'm blunt. I must be blunt.

Or better:

I'm blunt. I must speak bluntly.

You might hear this version spoken:

I'm blunt. I cannot not be blunt.

I don't think it is grammatically correct, but people say it and it would be understood.

I have only heard the admonition against double negatives in the context of sentences such as this:

"I don't want no trouble."

The reason for the rule is that two negatives cancel each other out, and therefore the literal interpretation of the sentence doesn't match the intended meaning.

In contrast, in this sentence:

"I can't not be blunt."

The literal interpretation matches the intended meaning, and therefore I believe that this sentence is grammatically correct, although cumbersome.

If you don't care about shades of meaning, then it would probably be better style to say "I must be blunt." But, if the writer's focus is on the attempted restraint and the failure of that restraint, then "I can't not be blunt" would be better in my opinion. This is particularly true in spoken English, where the speaker can make the meaning clear through emphasis. For example:

"I can't (pause) not (pause) be blunt."

In writing, you could change it to, "I can't avoid being blunt." Logically, this is the same double negative, but it's more pleasing to the native ear (although a bit more formal). Educated usage is full of similar constructions whose purpose is to shade meaning subtly. For example,

"I don't disagree with you."
"I'm not saying that he's (she's) unattractive."

I'm blunt. I can't not to be blunt.

Hmmm. What is the opposite of "blunt"? Maybe "sharp"?????

I'm blunt. I can't be sharp.

or maybe

I'm blunt. I can't be unblunt.

or maybe

I'm blunt. I can't be not blunt.


Hmmm. I cannot find a good answer. I guess you would just have to say

I'm blunt. That's just the way it is, so stop arguing with me!

I see someone has been at the beer again

Originally Posted by kwatts59

I'm blunt. I can't be sharp.

or maybe

I'm blunt. I can't be unblunt.

or maybe

I'm blunt. I can't be not blunt.

I'm a blunt, smoke me.

You can't tell James Blunt not to be Blunt, unless he gets married and gets a new surname.

Er, how does that work?

Well, I've come across with another example.

You are completely right. I can't disagree with you.=I can't not agree with you.


Русские товарищи! Ну скажите же, что мы так говорим!!!
Я НЕ могу НЕ согласиться с Вами, вы абсолютно правы.


or:
Imagine you go to a party and there was a very tall guy who was wearing a very bright red costume of a parrot and shouting folk songs all the evening very loudly. (A strange situation....)

Anyway,

It was impossible not to notice him.= It was not possible not to see him.


and

I've heard some constuctions like


I couldn't help noticing him...
I failed not to notice him...


Doesn't it convey the meaning I'm looking for?

Originally Posted by olgaa

Русские товарищи! Ну скажите же, что мы так говорим!!!
Я НЕ могу НЕ согласиться с Вами, вы абсолютно правы.

I second you.

I couldn't help noticing him...
I failed not to notice him...


Doesn't it convey the meaning I'm looking for?

Я не мог его не видеть...
Я всё равно его видел...

Seems like it has something.

Originally Posted by olgaa

I've heard some constuctions like


I couldn't help noticing him...
I failed not to notice him...


Doesn't it convey the meaning I'm looking for?

I couldn't help noticing him - is good.
I failed not to notice him - doesn't make much sense. Either:

I didn't fail to notice him (I noticed him).

Or:

I failed to ignore him.

Those have opposite meanings of course.

Originally Posted by demoiselle

I didn't fail to notice him (I noticed him).

Or:

I failed to ignore him.

Those have opposite meanings of course.

Fingers slip?

I'm blunt, I can't be subtle.

Double negative cancel each other out. "I ain't got no money" means he has some money, but should go to night school and learn to speak proper English so he can get a better job.

Again, bingo.

Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey

Originally Posted by demoiselle

I didn't fail to notice him (I noticed him).

Or:

I failed to ignore him.

Those have opposite meanings of course.

Fingers slip?

What do you mean, a finger slip? I don't understand you.

How do "I failed to ignore him." and "I noticed him." have opposite meanings?

<Reads them both again>

Yeah, I'm sure it's not just me being stupid.

Originally Posted by Seventh-Monkey

How do "I failed to ignore him." and "I noticed him." have opposite meanings?

<Reads them both again>

Yeah, I'm sure it's not just me being stupid.

I wrote:

I didn't fail to notice him (I noticed him).

Or:

I failed to ignore him.

"I didn't fail to notice him." (which means - I noticed him) is the opposite of "I failed to ignore him."

I think you just misread my second sentence.

I'm sure you're right. It's far too late for so many negatives .

I am confused too now, but that is my normal state, so it is not important

BUT

"I failed to ignore him" means that you did not ignore him -> you noticed him.

No?

I would say the result is almost the same but the point of view and the process of the two actions are different.

I didn't fail to notice him = I noticed him because it was in my intentions
I failed to ignore him = I didn't succeed in ignoring him and unfortunately against my will kinda noticed him