Thread: double negative

I don't want to have no money

так можно говорить? в этом случае допускается двойное отрицание?
does this make sense? I'm not sure about double negative in this case

It makes perfect sense, it just happens to be more spoken than written english, more "slangish" and ironic. It could be used in a situation that someone wants to give you money for something you consider was free.

I don't want to have money - Не хочу я денег
I don't want no money! - Ни одного копеек я не хочу ! Понимаешь, мерзавец? (the last part can be left out)

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

It makes perfect sense, it just happens to be more spoken than written english, more "slangish" and ironic. It could be used in a situation that someone wants to give you money for something you consider was free.

I don't want to have money - Не хочу я денег
I don't want no money! - Ни одного копеек я не хочу ! Понимаешь, мерзавец? (the last part can be left out)

I disagree. Yes, the person will understand you, but they'll think you have a 4th grade education, too. The correct variants are "I don't want your money" (like KV's example, where someone's trying to pay you for a favor) or "I don't want money" (in a philosophical sense -- you don't need material wealth).

представьте такой контекст:
imagine the context like this:

-я буду работать дворником, давай со мной?
-я не идиот! я не хочу, чтобы у меня не было денег!

(пример глупый)

-i'll work as a dustman. let's work together!
-i'm not that stupid. i dont want to have no money!

(the example is silly)

Hmmm....given your example, I might be wrong, after all. In this context, it may work -- a person may talk like this. I still think there's a better way to say it though. I'm not sure how you plan on ultimately using it -- if it's a situation where you have people talking about being janitors like this, then yes, it's ok. If you're using this for educated people, I would say no, it doesn't work. If you want to say it in a more proper fashion, you'd say something like "I don't want to be broke!" or "I want to earn money -- not lose it!"

One other thing -- I'm not sure if it's important to you or not -- but you used in your example the word дворник and gave as its translation "dustman." I've never seen this word before -- it is in the dictionary, though. Maybe it's a regional usage, but for me, I would use the words:
street cleaner (should be obvious), caretaker (someone who watches over a house/property for the owner who isn't present -- either they're out of town temporarily or permanently - ie they're rich) , janitor (someone who cleans buildings, schools, businesses), garbage man (someone who picks up the garbage from in front of your house every week).

I hope all this helps, and that I didn't just muddle up your question. If in doubt, trust Kalinka -- he seems to have been right in his first answer to you...

Originally Posted by olgaa

-i'm not that stupid. i dont want to have no money!

Это мне кажется неестественным.
Может лучше "I am not that stupid. I don't want to be broke."

When somebody says "I don't want no money", they usually mean "I dont want any money". Use of double negatives it is improper English and sounds uneducated or slang.

I agree, double negatives is not proper English.

And olgaa's example is different from mine, and you can not say it that way. Kwatts version is better.

BUT, you can use double negatives as slang. It is something mr. T would say. "I don't want no hug, fool!" (said to murdock).

I have more than a 4th grade education and I use it (jokingly).

thanks everybody especially barmaley for extra information about nice professions
could u give some other examples of accetable double negative?


всем спасибо, особенно barmaley за сведения по поводу dustman
если возможно, хотелось бы увидеть еще примеры с двойным отрицаним, которые считаются в порядке вещей

Originally Posted by olgaa

could u give some other examples of accetable double negative?

There really are NO acceptable examples of a double negative in the English language (incorrectly translated as "There really are not no acceptable examples...). The only reason I told you that I agreed with Kalinka above is that that is how someone in lousy conversational speech would talk -- an English instructor would probably flog you! You really only use them if you are
a)uneducated
b)just using sloppy conversational speech
c)Kalinka

Just keep in mind, as I was recently told, you will ALWAYS use negative prounouns with a negative verb in the Russian language (я ничего не знаю), and NEVER use negative pronouns with negative verbs in the English language (I do not know anything OR I know nothing) -- we want you to pick one or the other! Seriously, in your case, if you're a foreigner, native speakers wouldn't think anything of it if you used a double negative; if you were a native speaker though, they would think poorly of you.

Originally Posted by Barmaley

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

It makes perfect sense, it just happens to be more spoken than written english, more "slangish" and ironic. It could be used in a situation that someone wants to give you money for something you consider was free.

I don't want to have money - Не хочу я денег
I don't want no money! - Ни одного копеек я не хочу ! Понимаешь, мерзавец? (the last part can be left out)

I disagree. Yes, the person will understand you, but they'll think you have a 4th grade education, too. The correct variants are "I don't want your money" (like KV's example, where someone's trying to pay you for a favor) or "I don't want money" (in a philosophical sense -- you don't need material wealth).

You are right that it is grammatically incorrect. But lots of people say it, especially here in London.

I ain't got no money
I ain't done nothing (or nuffink :P )

But still it is wrong and makes you sound uneducated.

So olgaa, you really never need to you it yourself. I am a native English speaker and would never say it. It is not proper English. Unless you are imitating someone who can't speak English properly, but that's totaly irrelevent.

The problem is that the illustrious author of this thread did not give us any context. Of course "I don't want to have no money" is perfectly good English, spoken by the richest of us, even.

Here's a context that nobody thought of yet. Say you are an actor and your director (this might be you and God, btw), tells you that you are going to be in a new play. There are two charcters, a rich one and a poor one. The rich one has tons of money, and the poor one lives in the gutter with rats. So your director gives YOU first choice - Do you want to have money or no money?
And you answer - I don't want to have no money.

Will some native Russian speaker please translate this concept into Russian so I can understand it? Заранее спасибо!

Originally Posted by chaika

The problem is that the illustrious author of this thread did not give us any context. Of course "I don't want to have no money" is perfectly good English, spoken by the richest of us, even.

Here's a context that nobody thought of yet. Say you are an actor and your director (this might be you and God, btw), tells you that you are going to be in a new play. There are two charcters, a rich one and a poor one. The rich one has tons of money, and the poor one lives in the gutter with rats. So your director gives YOU first choice - Do you want to have money or no money?
And you answer - I don't want to have no money.

Will some native Russian speaker please translate this concept into Russian so I can understand it? Заранее спасибо!

OK, fine; after all, this is going to happen about as often as Haley's Comet comes around. You're right, techinically speaking, this is grammatically correct, but I think for the most part all you're going to do is confuse the foreign-speakers who need to speak the same English as the rest of us -- the other 99.999999999% of the time that is.

I chatted with Olgaa about double negatives. It took a while but I think she got the general idea. Context. It's perfectly fine for a street-sweeper to say "I ain't gots no money", but if a brain surgeon says "I ain't gots no scalpel" it's wise to check his credentials.
Just out of curiosity I looked up the wages for 'street sweeper' around here. They have a strong union (Teamsters) and make over $30,000 a year average.

I once saw a street cleaner throw a cigarette on the street.

Originally Posted by challenger

I once saw a street cleaner throw a cigarette on the street.

Obviously, they were just making sure they had plenty of work to do!

This is better though, than say, the brain surgeon tossing his leftovers in your head -- thus the hefty fee, I suppose.

I once saw a street cleaner throw a cigarette on the street

Union worker, may have said "I ain't gots no ashtray", filed a grievance and got paid twice for his hardship.

I hope there aren't any Teamsters reading this.

Originally Posted by chaika

The problem is that the illustrious author of this thread did not give us any context. Of course "I don't want to have no money" is perfectly good English, spoken by the richest of us, even.

Here's a context that nobody thought of yet. Say you are an actor and your director (this might be you and God, btw), tells you that you are going to be in a new play. There are two charcters, a rich one and a poor one. The rich one has tons of money, and the poor one lives in the gutter with rats. So your director gives YOU first choice - Do you want to have money or no money?
And you answer - I don't want to have no money.

Will some native Russian speaker please translate this concept into Russian so I can understand it? Заранее спасибо!

Do you want to have money or no money?
- I don't want to have no money.

Ты хочешь иметь деньги или не иметь их?
Я не хочу не иметь денег.
Or:
Ты хочешь, чтобы у тебя были деньги, или нет?
Я не хочу, чтобы у меня не было денег.

double negative is proper Ebonics, but it is not proper English (although Archie Bunker spoke like this)

Originally Posted by Barmaley

One other thing -- I'm not sure if it's important to you or not -- but you used in your example the word дворник and gave as its translation "dustman." I've never seen this word before -- it is in the dictionary, though.

"Dustman" is the british equivalent of american "garbage man". At least my dictionary thinks so

дворник = street cleaner, janitor

dustman (garbage man) = мусорщик

Do you want to have money or no money?
- I don't want to have no money.

Ты хочешь иметь деньги или не иметь их?
Я не хочу не иметь денег.
Or:
Ты хочешь, чтобы у тебя были деньги, или нет?
Я не хочу, чтобы у меня не было денег.

I think that in given context (conversation between a director and an actor) such translation sounds a bit akward or uncommon. I would rather say:

- Ты хочешь играть богача или бедняка/нищего?
- Я не хочу играть бедняка/нищего.


P.S. What is Ebonics?

thanks to everyone!
всем спасибо!

one more question on this topic
еще один вопрос по этой теме

I'm blunt. I can't not to be blunt.

Does this make sense?
Допустимо, ли двойное отрицание в этом случае?

(meaning I'm blunt and I can't change the situation-I will always be blunt and put things straightforwardly)

(имеется в виду, что я откровенен(на) и не могу что-либо изменить)


I think that Russians will agree with me that we use this grammar constuction pretty often for expressing more strong feelings.

Я думаю, что те, кто говорит по-русски согласятся со мной, что мы часто употребляем такую грамматическую форму.


Как же это сказать по инглишу???
Are there any ways of saying that in English?