Thread: Slavs Origins

I heard that there are two theories about the origins of slavic people: a normanist theory that is based on the Nestors chronicles and establishes the roots of Slavic people in Scandinavia and proto-Slavic theory which assumes that Slavic people are composed out of two peoples Venedes (proto-slavs) and slavs proper. The second theory is autochthonic in nature. I am more interested in the accounts on the second theory. I am curious if any of you guys have any interesting information relating to this topic.

There are good books of very reputable Russian historian-archaeologist B.A.Rybakov (Б.А.Рыбаков) regard the topic. One of them a folio "Язычество древних славян" (Heathendom of ancient Slavs) - about the pre-Christian Slavic history and even prehistory (since paleolith). It's a pity my English is far far from good and I'm afraid writing something sensible about that in English is beyond my abilities - too many specific terms.

The autochthonic theory considers archaeological levels of tshinecko-komarovskaya culture (term?) (1400-1300 B.C.), pshevorskaya and zarubinetskaya culture (300 B.C. - 300 A.D.), and culture of Praga-Korchack type (500-800 A.D.) as Slavic. All these archaeological cultures are in Oder, Vistula, and Dnieper river basins.

The only roots Russia has with Scandinavia is Rurik.

thanks but i do know about the normanist theory and I am more interested in the proto-slavic.

AFAIK Normanist theory is about origin of Russian statehood not about Slavic origin.

I belive that Nordic theory interprits the cultural and ethnic identity of Slavs. The Variagians who came down from Scandinavia got mixed with local tribes which created a present Slavic ethnicity or so the theory goes. So I guess it does talk about origins of slavs as an ethnic group and not only about the statehood.

There are no any notable trails of Scandinavian influence in Slavic folklore, folk-custom, mythology, legend, costume, housewares, housebuilding etc whatsoever. There were no that many Variagians to have an significant impact on peasant masses. They could influence the "ruling class" though but... I cannot see it. Just some mentions about them in Russian chronics where they figured as condottieres and merchants.

Well, N, that is why the Norman theory hasn't caught that well on. But the theory IS that the Normans gave Russia government, cohesion and culture approx when the Kieven state was born... (long before Rurik) This theory was created before the early history of southern Russia had been discovered, therefore, nowadays, there is little credence attached to this theory...

Vladimir the Great (Saint Vladimir), was a Scandanavian that converted to Christianity, went to Russia, kiled his brother that was a King out of Kiev, and assumed power. Then he went on to introduce Christianity to Russia.

We are still all from the same place originally!

Guys I did not post this thread to start a polemic discussion about Nordic theory. I was just wondering if you know any other scientifically based theories about the origins of Slavs.
-N- thanks for the Rybakov book I will check it out. If you have any other sources, books or sites concerning the subject of Proto-Slavs please let me know. But once again I didn't post this thread to credit or discredit the Nordic theory. So please stop mentioning it

Nordic theory! Nordic theory! Nordic theory!!!!!

good one, kalinka. Very mature

Nordic theory!

da...Durnoj primer zarazitelen

http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/english.html

"Drevniaia Rus' i Velikaia Step' "

"Old Russia and the Great Steppe". Gumilev's studies of the relationships between Russia and its neighbors, primarily nomads, in the 9th through the 14th centuries (1989).

Annotation: If you can read in Russian, I highly suggest visiting Gumilevica. There you can find many"on-line books and a lot of articles by Lev Nikolayevich Gumiliov, as well as maps, links and all kinds of related materials."

On-line book:"Древняя Русь и Великая степь (Old Russia and the Great Steppe)"

Завершающая книга третьей части "Степной трилогии" опубликованная в конце 1989 г.. Книга посвящена одной из самых сложных и запутанных проблем отечественной истории: взаимоотношениям Древней Руси и ее соседей, главным образом - Хазарскому каганату и кочевников Великой степи.

www.rustrana.ru Происхождение славян и русских

Originally Posted by FL

"Old Russia and the Great Steppe". Gumilev's studies of the relationships between Russia and its neighbors, primarily nomads, in the 9th through the 14th centuries (1989).

Ага, только уважаемый Лев Николаевич Гумилев был историософом, а не историком и писал в соответствующем жанре.

I d like to express my opinion. don't believe in Nordic theory. It was written in 18th century by 3 german guys, who had only one target - to weaken russian influence, at that time there was no any written Russian history, so that was a good idea to put down Russia in such way. And i doubt that it is possible to write smth authentic being in germany. Great russian scientist Lomonosov said that they had killed all russianness in their work and made russians the poorest people ever without their oun culture.
and one more thing....
Rurik wasn't from Scandinavia, he was Baltic slav, half slavic, half baltic, and as we know baltic languages look slavic(some scientists combine slavic and baltic languages in one language groupe), so we can consider him almost slavic person.

He was baltic!? All my sources, books, etc. say he was a viking/ varangian. Can you provide more information?