Thread: Mind Your Language

Story from today's BBC Online News. Belgorod region bans swearing in public (increased punishment if children or elderly are present!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3707192.stm

What do you think? Hardly the sort of thing that should be a part of a free and democratic society. There's a pretty good non-fallacious slipperly slope argument to be constructed here . . .

Quite apart from the slippery slope angle, I'd have thought the police would have had other slightly more pressing/important issues to contend with, or is Belgorod so wonderfully crime-free that they have nothing else to do?

Originally Posted by TexasMark

Story from today's BBC Online News. Belgorod region bans swearing in public (increased punishment if children or elderly are present!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3707192.stm

What do you think? Hardly the sort of thing that should be a part of a free and democratic society. There's a pretty good non-fallacious slipperly slope argument to be constructed here . . .

About time. Can't stand it when people swear. I take my hat off to Belgorodians.

Originally Posted by TexasMark

Hardly the sort of thing that should be a part of a free and democratic society.

Freedom and democracy doesn't mean freedom to abuse other citizens in public places by forcing them to listen to profanity. Good show, Belgorod cops. Can't wait till they start the same scheme in St Pete and on this board.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Freedom and democracy doesn't mean freedom to abuse other citizens in public places by forcing them to listen to profanity.

Totaly agree with VM . If you want to swear choose the appropriate company then. Nowdays it's difficult to be with a kid in public (i mean in Russia).Wherever u drop in for a bite in the city u'll hear ppl swearing and think of earplugs for a kid.

When I went to Petersburg I kind of liked the swearing. I would hear people speaking about things I dont understand, and then all of the sudden, [expletive], and I would think,

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Freedom and democracy doesn't mean freedom to abuse other citizens in public places by forcing them to listen to profanity.

Nobody is forcing anyone to listen to the foul language, no one forbids you to go away to a place where you won't hear it. Anyone can say: I don't want to be forced to listen to A. Where A can be any characteristic. Some would replace A with "profanity", some may replace it with "conversations about politics" or "conversations about food", with anything, there are plenty of things different people can't stand. To satisfy all those people you would simply have to ban talking in public places.

Originally Posted by Friendy

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Freedom and democracy doesn't mean freedom to abuse other citizens in public places by forcing them to listen to profanity.

Nobody is forcing anyone to listen to the foul language, no one forbids you to go away to a place where you won't hear it. Anyone can say: I don't want to be forced to listen to A. Where A can be any characteristic. Some would replace A with "profanity", some may replace it with "conversations about politics" or "conversations about food", with anything, there are plenty of things different people can't stand. To satisfy all those people you would simply have to ban talking in public places.

Oh yeah? Here's a real situation for you - mum and child at a bus stop, right, a gang of youth comes along, right, effing and blinding, Billingsgate fishmongers turning over in their graves - what's the woman supposed to do? According to you she has the only option - go away. And I say that ain't right, Friendy. She came there first, she needs that bus, why should she move? See, in this situation she's actually being forced to listen to foul language. Ahhhh, the little punks want to get on a bus too, don't they? Then they should be good enough to respect the people around them, because they are in a public place or face the music.

Applying the same lame kind of logic:
a couple decides to have sex in public - no one's forcing you to watch, you know. Replace "sex" with X and you had better stay indoors!

I think that swearing in public is quite an old problem in Russia.
The Baltic nobleman August von Kotzebue was arrested in 1800 and sent to Siberia. After his return he wrote a report about is journey. In this book he complained about the wide-spread swearing within the Russian population. It seems that not so much has changed since.
Some time ago I read a tourist guide for Russia in which the author dedicated a whole chapter to swearing.
One speciality I remember: A lot of swear words have sexual connotations of the worst kind but nowbody takes them really for earnest and feels his honor violated by them. From this statement the autor made one exception: She wrote that you really have to fear for your live if you call a criminal "gay".

Originally Posted by Старик

Some time ago I read a tourist guide for Russia in which the author dedicated a whole chapter to swearing.

Well, I have a 'rough guide' to Germany and there's also a chapter which teaches you how to fluchen in German. A friend of mine served in the ex-GDR when in the military and he came back with a truckload of colourful German expressions. And I don't think that those words had parochial connotations either.

One speciality I remember: A lot of swear words have sexual connotations of the worst kind but nowbody takes them really for earnest and feels his honor violated by them. From this statement the autor made one exception: She wrote that you really have to fear for your live if you call a criminal "gay".

Well, then I suggest you put her theory to a little test - how about you approach a group of thugs in St Pete and tell them you've slept with everyone's mum? Don't tell them you think they are gay, just tell them you've slept with their mums. According to that stupid woman's theory you have nothing to fear. However, my advice would be this - run for your life.

It is a good idea to ban swearing if the people decide that the" standard" that they choose to live by dictates that swearing is obscene. And since most people think it is obscene and something that they don't want their children to hear, I applaud that city for banning it.

The question we should be asking is, "What is swearing anyway?". The word in English that I am not allowed to even type here "F*CK" is actually a legitmately used word that at one time was used in our courts of law to describe an action. It was used by our most esteemed judges and lawers. How it came to be regaurded as a word not to be uttered is beyond me. There are many such words that we are not "allowed" to say whick over time have made the transition from benign to either foul or racist.

For Unlawfull Carnal Knowledge

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

a gang of youth comes along, right, effing and blinding, Billingsgate fishmongers turning over in their graves

OK finally I've worked it out. You're actually my 70 year old mother who has secretly learned Russian in the depths of Kensal Green. Well done Mum!

[I knew I shouldn't have bought her that computer, no good was ever going to come of it.]

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Well, then I suggest you put her theory to a little test - how about you approach a group of thugs in St Pete and tell them you've slept with everyone's mum? Don't tell them you think they are gay, just tell them you've slept with their mums. According to that stupid woman's theory you have nothing to fear. However, my advice would be this - run for your life.

I'm sure you are right that it would be better for me as an outsider not to make this test. But I could imagine that the guys you have in mind use this kind of swear words among themselves without any big consequences. This may be so because the statements ("I have slept with your mothers") are really so absurd that nobody accepts them at face value.

Rubbish, the word f*ck is not an acronym for unlawful carnal knowledge - it's been explained a countless number of times (just as the word sh*t is not an ancronym either and neither is c*nt), how can you be so ignorant - it's an old Anglo Saxon word, just as it's German brother "ficken" is. Anyway, the language they speak in Belgorod is Russian, not English - I don't understand what the attitude of English speakers towards the word f..k has to do with what they're doing in Belogorod.

Originally Posted by Старик

But I could imagine that the guys you have in mind use this kind of swear words among themselves without any big consequences. This may be so because the statements ("I have slept with your mothers") are really so absurd that nobody accepts them at face value.

And why would you be thinking that? Are you talking from experience? German experience? Is it because that's how the Germans talk to each other? I'm sure that would explain it, Старик. The Germans swear so much it's almost impossible for learners of the language to participate in conversations.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

[The Germans swear so much it's almost impossible for learners of the language to participate in conversations.

I'm afraid I'm moving in the wrong circles.

Originally Posted by Старик

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

[The Germans swear so much it's almost impossible for learners of the language to participate in conversations.

I'm afraid I'm moving in the wrong circles.

Good on you, Старик.

For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge was abbreviated as F**K historically. I cite as my source my history teacher with his Ph.D and whatnot.

Originally Posted by smartdude

For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge was abbreviated as F**K historically. I cite as my source my history teacher with his Ph.D and whatnot.

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, that teacher of yours was full of sh*t and his Ph.D is worth f**k all. Read all you need to know about f**k here:

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/fuck.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A753527
http://www.yourencyclopedia.net/Fuck.html

IMPORTANT! Type f*ck (with u, not instead of @@@@ in the first and third links.