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Thread: Marriage?

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    Marriage?

    Lately I've been hearing a lot of talk about marriage and age in the US. Too young, too old, too big of an age difference between the two...every possible pessimistic reference to marriage-I've heard. I was wondering what the typical age is in Russia to start thinking about or to get married? Are people as psycho there as they are here? Are girls as obsessed with their wedding day as we are over here?
    Я тебя люблю , большой монстр!

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    Re: Marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    Lately I've been hearing a lot of talk about marriage and age in the US. Too young, too old, too big of an age difference between the two...every possible pessimistic reference to marriage-I've heard. I was wondering what the typical age is in Russia to start thinking about or to get married? Are people as psycho there as they are here? Are girls as obsessed with their wedding day as we are over here?
    Nowadays men usually marry in their mid to late thirties, women marry in their late twenties to early thirties. That's only true about professional people. Peasants are virtually married as soon as they are born - to their mum, dad, their family pets and the neighbour's goat, a-a-a-a-a-a-aren't they?
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    JJ
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    Re: Marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    I was wondering what the typical age is in Russia to start thinking about or to get married?
    For men - it's usually after a military service or graduating the university, from 20 to 30, for women - it's from 19 to 25. I married when I was 21. My wife's sister married 3 years ago when she was 20. My cousin married in 1997, he was 24... and so on. Most of the people I know got married before 25, I know only 2 exeption among my friends and relatives.
    Are people as psycho there as they are here? Are girls as obsessed with their wedding day as we are over here?
    Actually I don't know how the people are psycho there.
    Gib immer 100% bei der Arbeit: 12% am Montag, 23% am Dienstag, 40% am Mittwoch, 20% am Donnerstag, 5% am Freitag ...

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    Re: Marriage?

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    For men - it's usually after a military service or graduating the university, from 20 to 30, for women - it's from 19 to 25. I married when I was 21. My wife's sister married 3 years ago when she was 20. My cousin married in 1997, he was 24... and so on. Most of the people I know got married before 25, I know only 2 exeption among my friends and relatives.
    That's very unusual, at least here in St Petersburg, perhaps that's just a Urals thing? I know loads of women in their late twenties and early thirties who aren't married yet. Most of them are urban professionals - lawyers, managers, interpreters, etc. I think people are getting married later these days, definately not in their early twenties. When you're 20-27 you're supposed to screw around like a rabbit, you certainly don't want any marital ties to pin you down (that goes for both men and women as far as I can see).

    Also, I've noticed that ugly people tend to marry very early, as if they were desperate, you know. I remember all the mingers from school got hitched as soon as they graduated.
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    Mingers...what a weird word.

    Getting married in your early to mid 20s makes sense to me. It's the same way around here, though. All the independant women seem to think that they can survive without a man, blah blah blah. Lawyers, doctors and women in such professions sometimes find it hard to find a man that they could marry without feeling superior to him. Id there that superiority complex in Russia too?

    It seems to be a growing trend -for women especially lately- to decide that they don't need/want to get married. Or they get married and divorced a good 5 times. I hate that.
    What happened to the good ol' good ol' days?
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    JB
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    Went to a (Moscow) school graduation ceremony in June and my friend who teaches there said 1/2 the female graduates were already engaged. Everytime my American girlfriends (18-22 year olds) visit me in Moscow the older Russian relatives start talking about how it's time to find them a husband. Most of my Russian girlfriends in University are engaged and those who are in their early 30's (all professionals) have been married since their early 20's. None are ugly, none are peasants, and none have ever screwed around like rabbits. All are happily monogamous.
    Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

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    DDT
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    Lawyers, doctors and women in such professions sometimes find it hard to find a man that they could marry without feeling superior to him. Id there that superiority complex in Russia too?

    ?
    Just as I suspected. There are no real men left in California.
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB
    Went to a (Moscow) school graduation ceremony in June and my friend who teaches there said 1/2 the female graduates were already engaged. Everytime my American girlfriends (18-22 year olds) visit me in Moscow the older Russian relatives start talking about how it's time to find them a husband. Most of my Russian girlfriends in University are engaged and those who are in their early 30's (all professionals) have been married since their early 20's.
    Ha-ha-ha, now that's bollocks, cos in Russia, as you should know, there is no practice of getting engaged as such. And never mind what those silly older Russians say.

    None are ugly, none are peasants.
    Men often see female beauty differently from women, so your opinion hardly counts for anything in this case.

    and none have ever screwed around like rabbits. All are happily monogamous.
    There's nowt as queer as fowk
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    Mingers...what a weird word.
    British word, you wouldn't know anything about it.

    Getting married in your early to mid 20s makes sense to me.
    Doesn't make sense to me though. (And therefore it shouldn't make sense to you either.)

    It's the same way around here, though. All the independant women seem to think that they can survive without a man, blah blah blah.
    No, it's not that over here. Professional women do want to get married but after they've made a career (more or less).

    Lawyers, doctors and women in such professions sometimes find it hard to find a man that they could marry without feeling superior to him. Id there that superiority complex in Russia too?
    No, doesn't exist here at all. As I said above, it's not about women thinking they can get by without a man, it's about women preferring to settle down when they are more or less secure careerwise.

    What happened to the good ol' good ol' days?
    People tend to live longer these days. Consequently they are finding it more and more of a challenge to stay married to just one person for the rest of their lives - because most people are hardly monogamous by nature. I've heard a radio program on this and there was this professor of psycology saying that soon the norm for the vast majority of people will be to get married, have children, get divorced and get married again and possibly have some more children. That's the way of the world, Tiara.
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    VM-Sometimes I think the only reason you respond is to hear your own keyboard keys make the cool click click click sound as you type (or not make the sound, depending on how old/new your keboard is).

    Since my question has been answered (thank you), I'm over this conversation because the "supposed to be new and improved VM" has once again ruined the topic by turning a simple conversation into a budding arguement with his uninvited ridiculous posts.
    Я тебя люблю , большой монстр!

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    im 18 and have yet to kiss a girl im not ugly...hope not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    VM-Sometimes I think the only reason you respond is to hear your own keyboard keys make the cool click click click sound as you type (or not make the sound, depending on how old/new your keboard is).

    Since my question has been answered (thank you), I'm over this conversation because the "supposed to be new and improved VM" has once again ruined the topic by turning a simple conversation into a budding arguement with his uninvited ridiculous posts.
    Curiously enough, the vast majority of VM's post was perfectly sensible, guard his JB-baiting. The world seems to have been turned on its head. First I'm agreeing with DDT, now VM...at this point, I'm just waiting for the temple to be rebuilt and the horsemen to show up.

    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine
    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    Getting married in your early to mid 20s makes sense to me.
    Doesn't make sense to me though. (And therefore it shouldn't make sense to you either.)
    No kidding. Even beyond VM's swinger persona, there are plenty of superb reasons not to marry young, the primary, in my opinion, being that YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU ACTUALLY ARE. While a person certainly changes over the entire course of his or her life, the late teens/early twenties see a monumental character shift for most people. The adjustment to adulthood (or the rejection thereof) vastly changes people. If you marry at, say, age 22, you're doing your spouse a tremendous injustice. They'll find themselves married to a stranger with your name just a few years later.

    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine
    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    It's the same way around here, though. All the independant women seem to think that they can survive without a man, blah blah blah.
    No, it's not that over here. Professional women do want to get married but after they've made a career (more or less).
    Same here, really. Please ignore Tiara's Phyllis Schlafly-esque ramblings. Beyond the fact, of course, that it is possible to survive without a man (the hell? It's not like all the single women in the world are curling up and dying), most "independent women" that I know, myself included, want to marry...eventually. I want to marry someone that I love and who makes my life richer and more interesting. But I'm not looking to marry for SURVIVAL. I can damn well feed and clothe myself. I can be happy by myself. This isn't the year 1200. I want to find out what career is best for me, what lifestyle suits me, where I want to live, etc. And frankly, it's not fair to me or to a potential spouse for me to marry before I do that. Am I supposed to drag him around the globe on my quest to find myself? Pshaw. Not to mention that I'd rather marry someone older and more situated.

    Quote Originally Posted by VM
    Quote Originally Posted by Phyllis Schlafly
    Lawyers, doctors and women in such professions sometimes find it hard to find a man that they could marry without feeling superior to him. Id there that superiority complex in Russia too?
    No, doesn't exist here at all. As I said above, it's not about women thinking they can get by without a man, it's about women preferring to settle down when they are more or less secure careerwise.
    What, Tiara, do you want to marry someone who wants you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen all your life? It's not about a "superiority complex." It's about finding an equal. That doesn't necessarily mean someone who is your equal career-wise, but someone who respects you and whom you can respect. Doctors and lawyers have demanding professions. Any spouse of a doctor or lawyer, male or female, is going to have to be willing to respect the demands of the profession. Sometimes that's hard to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by VM
    Quote Originally Posted by Phyllis Schlafly
    What happened to the good ol' good ol' days?
    People tend to live longer these days. Consequently they are finding it more and more of a challenge to stay married to just one person for the rest of their lives - because most people are hardly monogamous by nature.
    I rather suspect VM is right, alas. But in any case, I'm not sure what "good ol' days" you're talking about, Tiara. When was this era of perfect domesticity? To what time do we need to turn back the clocks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TiaraNEug
    VM-Sometimes I think the only reason you respond is to hear your own keyboard keys make the cool click click click sound as you type (or not make the sound, depending on how old/new your keboard is).

    Since my question has been answered (thank you), I'm over this conversation because the "supposed to be new and improved VM" has once again ruined the topic by turning a simple conversation into a budding arguement with his uninvited ridiculous posts.
    Tiara, sometimes I think the only reason you ask questions on this forum is to check if the others are aware of your presence. What pisses me off about you is that you act as if you owned your discussions. Try to grasp the following: any discussion you start no longer belongs to you once the question has been posted, everyone has the right to contribute and discussions can and do take new turns. As usual, the following very simple rule applies - if you can't stand the heat, get the <censored> out of the kitchen.

    And remember this, lady - I post what I like and when I like and I need no invitation from anyone including you to do so. My behaviour here is regulated by the rules of this forum which I have a printout of in a very expensive wooden frame that you can't even afford and will probably have to work for decades to be able to buy on hire purchase while affluent old me casually strolled into that posh Faberge store and bought it cash up front - it hangs on the wall next to that famous portrait of my pitbull where I can always see it.

    Re: "supposed to be new and improved VM" - shouldn't you knock off the booze? I'm as mean as I used to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine
    And remember this, lady - I post what I like and when I like and I need no invitation from anyone including you to do so. My behaviour here is regulated by the rules of this forum which I have a printout of in a very expensive wooden frame that you can't even afford and will probably have to work for decades to be able to buy on hire purchase while affluent old me casually strolled into that posh Faberge store and bought it cash up front - it hangs on the wall next to that famous portrait of my pitbull where I can always see it.

    Re: "supposed to be new and improved VM" - shouldn't you knock off the booze? I'm as mean as I used to be.
    That's the best insult I've heard all week.
    я не энаю... я не знаю ничего.

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    JB
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    Lindsay, I think that while VM's view (except for the silliness that only the ugly marry young and 20-27 is the time to do it like bunnies)is logical to the American and British culture, the reality in Russia is more along the lines of JJ's post.
    Marriage for women in Russia also seems to be not only a partnership for love but also survival. Very few single women there have the economic independence that American women have. Also the culture is much more macho than America.
    My Russian girlfriends are amazed by the American culture of female independence. They think we are crazy for doing what they consider a man's job, i.e. fixing our own pipes and cars, carrying heavy packages instead of giving them to our husbands, opening doors for men etc, and they can't imagine doing these things without a man. They also express worry for women who aren't married by the age of 25, and pity for any female over 30 without a husband. Their deadline for "all the good ones are taken" seems to fall a lot earlier than the American version.
    Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB
    Lindsay, I think that while VM's view (except for the silliness that only the ugly marry young and 20-27 is the time to do it like bunnies)is logical to the American and British culture, the reality in Russia is more along the lines of JJ's post.
    Oh, quite. But I'm not arguing that he's right about Russia. I'm agreeing with the reasons he gave for not becoming a child bride.

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    JJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by VendingMachine
    That's very unusual, at least here in St Petersburg, perhaps that's just a Urals thing? I know loads of women in their late twenties and early thirties who aren't married yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by JB
    They also express worry for women who aren't married by the age of 25, and pity for any female over 30 without a husband.
    As my father said "В 20 лет ума нет - и не будет, в 30 лет жены нет - и не будет, в 40 лет денег нет - и не будет". Everything is good in its season. The singles over 30 have their own life and habits but marry always changes them and IMHO, it's harder to change something in your life over 30 than at 20. Also, it's no good for a woman's health to give birth to her 1st child over 30.
    Gib immer 100% bei der Arbeit: 12% am Montag, 23% am Dienstag, 40% am Mittwoch, 20% am Donnerstag, 5% am Freitag ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB
    blah blah blah ... the reality in Russia is more along the lines of JJ's post
    I wonder what exactly you know about the "reality" of life in Russia - I mean you who recently put a foot in it again by telling that cock and bull story of Russians getting engaged. To anyone who has ever been to Russia and bothered to learn about our culture that statement should sound rediculous as there is no tradition of getting engaged in Russia - people meet, people date, people get married - but there's no custom of getting "engaged" in the Western sense of that word.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB
    fixing our own pipes and cars, carrying heavy packages instead of giving them to our husbands, opening doors for men etc
    Well, I dunno, yesterday I was going to install a new kazi (the U-bend was leaking), but instead I had sex with my girlfriend and naturally she wanted to be nice to me in return so she did all the plumbing herself, I only had to pilot test it afterwards. Also she did the washing up and later helped me to adjust the polar mount of my satellite dish. She then cooked a superb borscht and we drove to my stately home in the country (the village of Twatskoye, north of Berkinovo) where she tieded up in her toolshed, cleaned out the soot from the chimbley and chopped up some wood. On the way home we stopped to buy copious amounts of expensive computer hardware - I payed with her credit card for whatever piece of equipment she pointed at (naturally she carried the stuff back to the car herself and she ran in front of me to open the door for me). Coming home she did the ironing and cooked a wonderful dinner. After that she fixed my DVD player. Somehow I still can't get rid of the feeling that the woman is bone lazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ
    Also, it's no good for a woman's health to give birth to her 1st child over 30.
    Not true. If a woman stays off fags and booze she's healthier than a 20 year old who does it all. My mum had me when she was 32 - no complications whatsoever, the healthiest birth in ages she was told by the midwife. But I've seen some 20 year olds have problems because of their shitty lifestyle. Basically that "you should have kids before you're 30" applies only to peasant women and those who drink and smoke. Consider this: I know not a single woman who gave birth after 30 and had problems but I know a lot who gave birth to their first child in their early thirties and it was OK - all those women lead a very healthy, active lifestyle and look better than your average peasant 20 year old one does.
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    bone idle .. and i think it should be 'khazi' but can't be bothered to check
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