Thread: Travel Blog; CIS/ex-USSR countries (i.e. Russian speaking)

Have you asked any russian in Latvia what they think about the situation?

Originally Posted by Marcus

Have you asked any russian in Latvia what they think about the situation?

No, but I will when the opportunity arises. I haven't met anyone that I have had a conversation with yet. But assuming these people are like everyone else in Europe, they would probably like to see signs in their own language, and get service in their own language where it is feasible.

Btw, Riga is still looking a bit of a dump. Drunk males of all ages walking around with bottles in their hands, without shirts on, smelling like a vodka factory. I assume they are unemployed. Buildings completely dilapidated, paint peeling off the walls of buildings, lots of rubbish everywhere, broken windows and graffiti tags on the walls.

I have read about the Latvian "economic miracle" and I really thought that things would be in a better shape. The "miracle" has certainly not been reflected in the state of buildings or in terms of achieving high levels of employment. I don't know who is benefiting from this 'economic miracle', but a lot of inhabitants of Riga have clearly not been included.

Daugavpils actually looked a bit better than this, not to mention every town I visited in Belarus. Depressing.. This is the kind of misery I was worried about coming across in Ukraine, when I was writing about worrying about criminality. But I did not see it there, at least not to this degree. I would not walk alone on the streets of Riga late at night, whereas in Belarus I would, without hesitation, and in Ukraine too, being a bit cautious. But here - definitely not. I am really disappointed in what I have seen so far.

The language situation is even more confusing in Riga. When I have asked people in English, they don't understand in most cases. When I ask in Russian, then many people also don't seem to understand, or the respond in Latvian which is totally incomprehensible to me.

There is a problem in Latvia with wild dogs walking around and barking quite a bit

I am not in the mood for quabbling with Eric. There is clearly some law preventing the usage of Russian on signs, in shops. Otherwise Daugavpils would have been fully signed in Russian, or dual signed.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Btw, Riga is still looking a bit of a dump. Drunk males of all ages walking around with bottles in their hands, without shirts on, smelling like a vodka factory. I assume they are unemployed. Buildings completely dilapidated, paint peeling off the walls of buildings, lots of rubbish everywhere, broken windows and graffiti tags on the walls.

And you didn't see such things in Belarus? I can hardly believe that...

By the way, in Russian they have a special term for such people, the term is "gopnik". Ask Marcus or whoever, each Russian is going to admit they have loads of them... So do they in Belarus. I don't blame those two countries for that, but it's a clear and evident fact, they are leaders of the region by the number of "gopniks"...

they would probably like to see signs in their own language, and get service in their own language where it is feasible.

they would probably like more to have education in their language, better ideology and equal rights with Latvians.

I have read about the Latvian "economic miracle"

The miracle was before the crisis.
A Russian from Riga told me Riga was a completely safe place, and no one is afraid of walking at night. I myself don't know the truth.

When I ask in Russian, then many people also don't seem to understand.

That's strange. There are a lot of native Russian speakers (60 % in 1990) and older generation know Russian.

And you didn't see such things in Belarus? I can hardly believe that...

I am the one who has just been in both countries. When were you last in either Belarus or Latvia?
Either trust me, or go there yourself but please don't accuse me of lying based on anything other than your own ideas.
Remember that you thought that people were not allowed to enter or exit Belarus! That's how up to date you were!
I think you are being provocative and trolling on purpose and I am going to stop wasting my time responding. Hardly anyone from Western Europe has such arrogant views as you do, and you are clearly not American. If you are from Eastern Europe then you are amazingly clueless about your own area. If you are Northern European then honestly: skärp dig och sluta vara en tönt!

I was very surprised at seeing practically no drunks in Minsk and totally blown away by the good state of most buildings and pavements. It looked better than many parts of the UK for example. Some 1960s domestic buildings which could do with renovation as I have already said. However they look much better because there is no junk, litter or graffiti and they are clean. I'd say that it's the result of the 100% employment drive in Belarus. It probably looked pretty bad there about 5 years ago. I'll post my pictures.

Yes I am aware that there are problems with drunkenness and dilapidated buildings in Russia. Not sure how much has been renovated with the oil and gas money and whether there has been any improvement with the drinking problems. I dislike drunks, graffiti, garbage, unemployment and dilapidated buildings equally much regardless whether it is in Belarus, Latvia or Russia.

and you are clearly not American.

He is from the USSR and a native Russian speaker, haven't you understood?

It probably looked pretty bad there about 5 years ago.

Probably it looked similar. My grandmother used to say that Minsk was very clean, that the defieciency was smaller.

I'd say that it's the result of the 100% employment drive in Belarus.

Where did you find this information? I don't think it is connected to employment.

Originally Posted by Marcus

He is from the USSR and a native Russian speaker, haven't you understood?

Dude, you still live in the USSR? My sorry for you...

And you're the second person here who calls me a native Russian speaker. I'd like to understand the Russian logic, is that because of my posts in Russian? I wonder then what you would think if I added a few posts in German, French, Italian, etc.

Where did you find this information? I don't think it is connected to employment.

No, no I am just guessing. "I'd say" essentially means "I am guessing that". Do you know anything about it? Frankly I don't know what the policies were. For a country that is not rich, they are keeping it very good looking. But I noticed that massive areas of Vitebsk were being renovated at the same time, clearly by state employees without any private involvement. I also noticed that there were no unemployed poor people around, like you see in countries like England. So my guess was that the state employs people for these type of jobs. Thanks for clarifying about Eric, it was beginning to really irritate me.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I wonder then what you would think if I added a few posts in German, French, Italian, etc.

Go ahead with your next post in German please and we'll see!!!

An ex-USSR nationality and troll-mode is the only explanation. Nobody simply learns Russian as a hobby well enough to fool a native speaker that you are also a native speaker! You had me fooled with your name though.

Originally Posted by Hanna

An ex-USSR nationality and troll-mode is the only explanation.

Explanation of what?

Originally Posted by Marcus

He is from the USSR and a native Russian speaker, haven't you understood?

Судя по тому, что он не заметил гопоты на Украине, он из вуйков. =)

Where did you find this information? I don't think it is connected to employment.

No, no I am just guessing. "I'd say" essentially means "I am guessing that"
Do you know anything about it? Frankly I don't know what the policies were. For a country that is not rich, they are keeping it very good looking.

But I noticed that massive areas of Vitebsk were being renovated at the same time, clearly by state employees without any private involvement. I also noticed that there were no unemployed poor people around, like you see in countries like England.

Thanks for clarifying about Eric, it was beginning to really irritate me.

Hanna, please don't spend too much efforts on the last discussion, it's typical for expats to feel butthurt when hearing something good about their former place of residence, mostly they are trying to convince not others but themselves about they did the right thing and left.

Interesting comment Basil77.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Until the middle of 2008, Latvia had the fastest developing economy in Europe. In 2003, GDP growth was 7.5% and inflation was 2.9%. Unemployment was 9% in 2003 - 2005;

however, in 2009 it rose to 23% and is the highest in the European Union. Privatization is mostly complete, except for some of the large state-owned utilities. On May 1, 2004, Latvia joined the European Union.


The Financial Crisis of 2008 is still affecting the Latvian economy, primarily as a result of the easy credit bubble that began building up during 2004. The bubble burst lead to a rapidly weakening economy, resulting in a budget, wage and unemployment crisis. ^[9]

Latvia had the worst economic performance in 2009, with annual growth rate averaging -18%.

This explains what I am seeing. Men who should be working are sitting around boozing and everybody's been too busy privatizing that nobody had time to worry that the roads are falling apart and the houses haven't been painted or renovated since the 1980s...

Apparently the monthly income is about 500 - 600 USD which is about the same as Belarus, only in Belarus things like food and travelling are A LOT cheaper, other than imported technology, designer clothes etc.

The two countries are at the OPPOSITE way of how to deal with the post - Soviet situation.

I think that Russia has subsidized Belarus quite a bit, while the EU has subsidized Latvia quite a bit.
To me, there are pros and cons with both systems, emotionally I am more drawn towards the Belarussian model, practically I am aware that the Latvian approach is considered by most to be sounder

I think that Russia has subsidized Belarus quite a bit, while the EU has subsidized Latvia quite a bit.

And I think Russia has subsidized quite a lot, and it was real help to the economy (cheap gas and oil and open market to Belorussian products). It cannot be compared with the EU, which paid to Latvian farmers if they diminish the production.

I am writing from the Old Town of Riga which is nice, quaint and packed with cafes and restaurants and shops aimed at tourists. This has been made up quite nicely. This old town seems a bit bigger than the one in Stockholm, but not quite as old.

There is a Stockmann's department store here now (Finnish) which I don't think was here earlier. There I quickly found some tops exactly like I had wanted to buy in Belarus, but could not find. Half the people shopping there were Nordics and from other neighbouring countries.

I've also seen lots of shops for amber jewellery which I was looking for in Ukraine and Belarus, but could not find, at least to my taste. Here, there are plenty.

The prices here are low-ISH.... but for local people on the salaries that Wikipedia list, it's not going to be cheap! I almost got used to paying [nothing] for public transport in Belarus... That was so nice! In Riga, a trip on the tram is about 1.20 EUR, while in Minsk, it's 0.15 EUR. The restaurants in Minsk are a lot cheaper, likewise pretty much everything else.
If I was going to live on 500 USD a month, I'd rather do it in Minsk than in Riga! On my current salary, there is much better shopping etc available in Riga. But I would not want to live here because the city outside of the old town is not very nice.

Another thing that I miss from Belarus is gentlemen who help women with heavy bags! Russians are more gentlemen than Scandinavians, and Baltics, for sure. I really appreciate that. Maybe it's just my prejudice against Baltic people kicking in but it feels like people are a lot less polite / more rude than they were in BY.

The countries are quite different though... I don't think they have a lot in common, so maybe it's unfair to compare them. But I found both Ukrainians and Belarussian to be warm and friendly people and that's certainly not the reputation of Baltic ppl.

Russian language is used to communicate between people from the different Baltic states, I have noticed. For example a Lithuanian couple at the table beside me, are speaking Russian with the waitress. Both have accents. (The languages are not mutually comprehensible. )

I was really enjoying speaking Russian in BY, and also in Daugavpils, Latvia. But in Riga I had some strange reactions, so now I am switching to English and will only use Russian after I already tried English.

Very interesting, Hanna!

Just one curiosity, you said that "half the people there were nordics", how can you tell? Do you also speak norvegian/finnish/danish? Or for their looks?

Originally Posted by fabriciocarraro

Very interesting, Hanna!

Just one curiosity, you said that "half the people there were nordics", how can you tell? Do you also speak norvegian/finnish/danish? Or for their looks?

To answer, I need to give a little lecture.. Norwegian, Danish and Swedish is ESSENTIALLY the same language, it's just that the spelling and pronounciation is different and, about a couple of hundred words are different (easily memorised). So I can have a conversation with a Danish or Norwegian person in my language, and he responds in his language - we both understand each other. Our countries are not very big (population wise) and they are so similar so many people tend to think of Scandinavia as one country/are. Finnish is a completely different language, but they have a Swedish speaking minority there and everyone can understand Swedish + they have signs and information in both languages. For that reason, Finland is also part of the group. And anyway, it's a very easily recognisable language to me - I know plenty of words and phrases in Finnish - there are tons of Finnish people living in Sweden.

Anyway, I can usually tell that people are Nordic either from their speech, or just their height/faces and looks (tall, blonde) or how they are dressed. There is a daily ferry (takes 1000s of passengers) to Riga from Stockholm and a similar one from Helsinki, and it's quite a popular budget holiday or weekend trip. Also there are flights. Some people go because there is a very large beach area near Riga - there are lots of hotels there and they are quite cheap. After the Baltic states joined the EU and people could not buy cheap alcohol on the ferries anymore, the popularity of these trips declined though!

The beach in Liepaja at 21:00 in the evening, 3 July


Random shot from the old town in Riga. More than half of the people around are tourists.


At a street right next to the hotel I stayed at in Riga, this is a typical sight:




I thought they were supposed to have super fast broadband in the Baltics? I have not been impressed so far 1 MB!!! Best broadband speed on this trip so far, was in the very cool Pridnestrovie Republic.

Originally Posted by Hanna

To answer, I need to give a little lecture.. Norwegian, Danish and Swedish is ESSENTIALLY the same language, it's just that the spelling and pronounciation is different and, about a couple of hundred words are different (easily memorised). So I can have a conversation with a Danish or Norwegian person in my language, and he responds in his language - we both understand each other. Our countries are not very big (population wise) and they are so similar so many people tend to think of Scandinavia as one country/are. Finnish is a completely different language, but they have a Swedish speaking minority there and everyone can understand Swedish + they have signs and information in both languages. For that reason, Finland is also part of the group. And anyway, it's a very easily recognisable language to me - I know plenty of words and phrases in Finnish - there are tons of Finnish people living in Sweden.

Very interesting to know that, Hanna! We have almost no information on those languages here in Brazil.... well, it's reasonable why, but anyway, good to know! Do you consider any of the languages easier than the others? Might be an option after I finish my studies in Russian and Dutch.

By the way, great pictures! =)

Norwegian, Danish and Swedish is ESSENTIALLY the same language

Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian are essentially the same language. A man on Lingvoforum (Wulfilla) said he heard strange Swedish and it turned to be Danish.

But if two people are speaking Belarussian or Ukrainian to each other, how much can you, as a Russian, understand? I understand everything (95% or more) if it's Norwegian and 85-90% if it is Danish.

I have also been wondering whether it isn't a problem for some peole in Belarus and Ukraine that some signs are only in Belarussian / Ukrainian. I asked LOTS of people in Belarus if they could speak Belarussian and I met only two people who said they could speak it.
When I was in Ukraine I did not ask about it.