Results 1 to 7 of 7
Like Tree2Likes
  • 2 Post By Боб Уайтман

Thread: Simple Question of Genitive Plural

  1. #1
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    5

    Post Simple Question of Genitive Plural

    I decided to put this question into the beginners section because it's a pretty simple question. Usually inflectional endings of nouns don't confuse me, but I've never really caught onto one trend.

    This trend is the Zero, or null ending of the genitive plural for nouns, E.g) nom sing: сло́ва (slóva) gen pl: сло́в (slóv)

    Как бы мы говорим, без слов?

    Could I please have some light shed on the rules for when a genitive plural will use the null inflection?


    Thanks a bunch guys and have yourselves a good day.

  2. #2
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    865
    Rep Power
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Gottimhimmel View Post
    I decided to put this question into the beginners section because it's a pretty simple question. Usually inflectional endings of nouns don't confuse me, but I've never really caught onto one trend.

    This trend is the Zero, or null ending of the genitive plural for nouns, E.g) nom sing: сло́ва (slóva) gen pl: сло́в (slóv)

    Как бы мы говорим, без слов?

    Could I please have some light shed on the rules for when a genitive plural will use the null inflection?


    Thanks a bunch guys and have yourselves a good day.
    Generally - it is very simple: any noun which has -а/-я or -о ending in its dictionary form, takes zero ending in genitive plural.
    There are a few exceptions, though: ухо - ушей, око - очей (око is an archaic word for глаз). And also some masculine nouns tend not to take -ов in genitive plural (носок - без носков, some people say без носок; сапог - размер его сапог; ботинок - цвет моих ботинок and some others).

    But as for the general rule - just use what I wrote above. If it is -я then it will be a zero ending (always, the same as for -а), but a soft sign will be used to keep softness: баня - бань, дыня - дынь, тётя - тёть, дядя - дядь (although dictionaries say "дядей" is possible, but I think it is outdated), Катя - Кать, пуля - пуль etc.
    fortheether and Antonio1986 like this.

  3. #3
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    5
    Could you elaborate a bit on the second part where you say that a soft sign will be used to keep it softness? For example, which one of these two is the gen. pl form? баня - бань

  4. #4
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    865
    Rep Power
    26
    The first one is the dictionary form (nominative singular): баня. And in all of my other examples the same sequence is assumed.

    So, "я" (as I hope you know) serves for two purposes: 1) represents the vowel sound of "а"; 2) indicates softness of "н". So, phonetically it is [б А н' а] (the stressed vowel capitalized, the apostrophe is used for softness). If you remove the nominative singular feminine ending [а] (to get the zero ending), what do you get then? [б А н'] Now spell it in Russian orthography: бань.

  5. #5
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    5
    Thanks. Is the soft sign null ending also applied to nominative words ending in -a?

  6. #6
    Старший оракул
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    865
    Rep Power
    26
    You did not get me

    The soft sign does not belong to the ending.
    You confuse pronunciation and spelling. Pronunciation is primary, spelling is a way to render the pronunciation in writing.

    Compare two nouns in their pronunciation (the square brackets mean it is the phonetic transcription):
    [с т р у н А] (nom sg, "string") -> [с т р У н]
    [б А н' а] (nom sg, "bath") -> [б А н']

    Do you see what I mean? The first noun (струна) has its stem with a hard consonant before the ending, the second one - with a soft consonant.

    And let's write them with letters:
    струна - струн
    баня - бань

    Actually, both струна and баня have the same ending - it is the feminine ending [а].
    But the final consonant of their stems is different.

  7. #7
    Увлечённый спикер
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    5
    No i completely understand that. No worries we're having a communication problems. Thanks for your help! It's all good now.

Similar Threads

  1. use of plural genitive
    By paasikivi in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: August 19th, 2006, 02:11 PM
  2. genitive plural ending
    By possopo in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: February 24th, 2006, 10:05 PM
  3. A simple question about Plural in Nominative.......
    By harmonica in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: May 5th, 2005, 11:57 AM
  4. Genitive negated and plural genitive
    By ВМФ in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: April 29th, 2005, 01:17 AM
  5. genitive plural
    By possopo in forum Grammar and Vocabulary
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: March 28th, 2005, 09:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Russian Lessons                           

Russian Tests and Quizzes            

Russian Vocabulary