Thread: Really, really new at this!

Well, I decided 2 days ago that I'm going to learn Russian. I've been interested for 10 or so years, but was too intimidated to pick it up. I was scared of the alphabet, which is really funny to me now because the alphabet is very easy. I've learned and retained half of it in just 2 days. It's just a matter of thinking differently. I've been searching the web for resources and found this site which I'm really excited about. It looks like I could really learn a lot here. There aren't a lot of foreigners where I live (Savannah, GA, USA) so I really have nobody to work with in person. This is another reason why I was intimidated. I'm determined now though that I can learn Russian. It doesn't honestly seem that hard anymore.

I've installed the Russian keyboard on my computer, but I have a question. I have also found a phonetic keyboard where the Russian alphabet is lined up as close as possible to the English alphabet in terms of which keys to use. Do you guys think this is good or that it will be more harmful in the future. I type very fast in English (65-70 words per minute) and I thought having a phonetic match for Russian would be easier, but I don't want to do that if it would be in any way harmful to the overall learning of the Russian language.

I've also begun labelling everything in my house with Russian words to help me learn some practical vocabulary. The only thing I'm concerned about with vocabulary is getting the right words. What sites would you guys recommend for common vocabulary so that I don't have to wonder if I'm learning the wrong thing?

I think I'm going to enjoy myself here and enjoy learning Russian. I really appreciate that a site like this one has been made and maintained.

A decade of intimidation? Hopefully a friendly здравствуйте from the members won't scare you away.

Originally Posted by Danisty

I've installed the Russian keyboard on my computer, but I have a question. I have also found a phonetic keyboard where the Russian alphabet is lined up as close as possible to the English alphabet in terms of which keys to use. Do you guys think this is good or that it will be more harmful in the future. I type very fast in English (65-70 words per minute) and I thought having a phonetic match for Russian would be easier, but I don't want to do that if it would be in any way harmful to the overall learning of the Russian language.

Trust me, you won't want to do it that way, it would make things terribly confusing. It doesn't take that long to learn where they are and as soon as you know it you'll be wondering why your T comes up as an Е while your head as well as your keyboard are still in Russian mode. And that would be a good thing at the learning stage since it means something's going in.


I'm sure a lot of members here have many useful links other than Google...

Here are some I have used:

http://langintro.com/rintro/index.htm
http://www.rossia.com/stamps/info/readrussian.htm
https://www.seelrc.org:8443/russ/login.jsp

Thank you for the links! The first one is actually a site I've already been to and learned a great deal from! I've been doing the review quizzes over and over again. I'm not satisfied unless I get them all right. When I labeled my house I realized that I was doing pretty good with the alphabet when I read "телефон" and realized it was essentially pronounced the same as English. I figured I must be doing pretty good with the letters at least.

I suspected that the phonetic keyboard was a bad idea because it just sounded too easy. Usually when something is that easy, you've missed something really important. It sounds like using the correct keyboard will help with disassociating the Russian language from the English language. From what I can tell, that is especially important since some of the letters look like English letters but have different pronunciations (like В which seems potentially confusing since the English letter B is phonetically represented with a different Russian letter). The English keyboard is set up with a system called QWERTY where the most common letters are placed in the easiest position to reach. Is the proper Russian keyboard similar in funtionality?

Would you recommend learning cursive in the beginning or getting very comfortable with print first? I find it extremly difficult to write Д because I can't find any sites that teach writing the way that children would be taught. I've found some sites that teach the cursive, but not the print. I decided a long time ago if I was going to learn a foreign language, I was going to learn to read and write it as well as speak it. Just speaking a language feels kind of useless to me.

здравствуйте

I refuse to be intimidated anymore. I looked it up. Hello to you as well.

I would go with the standard Russian keyboard layout. If you ever have to use a russian computer keyboard you will be glad.

http://www.webtelek.com
http://www.multitran.ru
http://www.gwu.edu/~slavic/golosa/golosa.htm
http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/
http://russianmentor.net/

Originally Posted by Volk

A decade of intimidation? Hopefully a friendly здравствуйте from the members won't scare you away.

Originally Posted by Danisty

I've installed the Russian keyboard on my computer, but I have a question. I have also found a phonetic keyboard where the Russian alphabet is lined up as close as possible to the English alphabet in terms of which keys to use. Do you guys think this is good or that it will be more harmful in the future. I type very fast in English (65-70 words per minute) and I thought having a phonetic match for Russian would be easier, but I don't want to do that if it would be in any way harmful to the overall learning of the Russian language.

Trust me, you won't want to do it that way, it would make things terribly confusing. It doesn't take that long to learn where they are ...

I second it.
Welcome to our forum!

just imagine: if you had started 10 years ago you would be incredable now! oh well, its never too late

Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo

just imagine: if you had started 10 years ago you would be incredable now! oh well, its never too late

You're right. While browsing this forum yesterday I told my husband I feel cheated. I saw in the penpals a girl who was only 18 and had 4 or 5 languages under her belt. Small towns like the one I live in don't even offer 4 or 5 languages in the entire school system. In fact, where I went to high school, Spanish was my only option. Now, there's nothing wrong with Spanish, but it's not one of the 4 languages I've always wanted to learn. I did very well in it, but my lack of interest really kept me from retaining everything 10 years down the road. Does that make sense? This country just doesn't put any importance on average citizens learning foreign languages and I think it's going to come back to haunt us eventually. If I had it my way, I would have been learning languages in elementary school.

This country just doesn't put any importance on average citizens learning foreign languages and I think it's going to come back to haunt us eventually.

Why would it come back to haunt you? Assuming you're from the US, there is very little reason to learn a foreign language. English is the de facto language of business, and it's the language that's expected to be used in such correspondence. Most of the world knows English. If you show up in France and start speaking French, often the French will start speaking English back to you. (that can be frustrating)

There's really very few reasons an American should be expected to learn a foreign language:

1) simply because you want to
2) a spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend
3) a corporate move to another country
4) maybe a small business owner learning Spanish.

Americans have got along just fine without foreign languages and will continue to do so. It's really not that hard to visit a foreign country without speaking their language, either.

Now wanting to learn a foreign language and talk to other people is great, and there is something pleasurable in being able to speak to someone in their own language. It brings a sense of accomplisment and a fulfillment to you, and usually also endears you in the eyes of the foreign person you are addressing, as well.

About the keyboard - definately go with a Russian layout (as opposed to the transliterated). As was mentioned before, this will help you to distinguish between the two languages in your head. And, if you read any literature on learning foreign languages, you probably know that this is a very important step.

As for learning cursive or focusing on print - you need to ask yourself what you want to do with the language. In all honesty, the only time I actually write anything by hand anymore is when i'm making notes for myself in a class or meeting, or writing in my planner. Basically all correspondence for me is done on a keyboard. So, unless you intend on living in Russia or hand-writing notes to people, I would say you will probably get along fine without it. However, it's not any more difficult to learn than the printed alphabet, and it certainly wouldn't hurt.

Finally, congrats on wanting to learn a foreign language, and good luck!

tdk

Originally Posted by *AtomicPossum*

If you show up in France and start speaking French, often the French will start speaking English back to you.

Maybe so, but if you just start speaking english like an arrogant american who thinks the whole world should know english by now they may pretend they don't understand and just walk away. Even if your french is very bad at least you proved you're trying.

Originally Posted by *AtomicPossum*

Americans have got along just fine without foreign languages and will continue to do so.

It's not specific to Americans. Many Russians don't know any foreign languages either and get along well. But that's in fact a great disability. Not particularly in terms of money/business/quality of life (for all these a small subset of English is sufficient), but in the way they are able to see the world around them. Every new learned language is like a new vision. It may be more or less blurred depending on the level of knowledge and experience but anyway better than total blindness.

I completely agree with Layne here. In my experience, people have been a lot kinder abroad to people who attempt to speak in the country's native language - as opposed to people who expect everybody to speak english.

tdk

That's the thing about being a native English speaker, unless you have a very good reason, there's no 'need' to learn another language, which I find a shame. It's great knowing this language for the benefits which people would do a lot in order to know at a native level but sometimes I wish I had another language as a native language and English as a second.

Once someone knows a English as their second language, I expect it makes learning more languages easier.

I definately agree that at least trying to speak the native language of a foreign land you are visiting will be much preferable to the person.


But about the keyboard thing- are there actually courses out there that encourage the use of a transliterated keyboard? I think that would be an awfully confusing way to learn. There's no exposure that way which is the best way to learn in my opinion.

Originally Posted by *AtomicPossum*

Americans have got along just fine without foreign languages and will continue to do so. It's really not that hard to visit a foreign country without speaking their language, either.

It actually is difficult to visit certain countries without speaking the language.

And I don't know where you went in France, but French people don't like speaking Enlgish.

А в Японии еще хуже. Совсем никто не говорит на английском, или по крайней мере, если на самом деле они умеют говорить немного по-английски, стесняются и делают вид того, что не понимают.

Originally Posted by basurero

А в Японии еще хуже. Совсем никто не говорит на английском, или по крайней мере, если на самом деле они умеют говорить немного по-английски, стесняются и делают вид того, что не понимают.

Японцы, они такие... Если владеют каким-то языком, даже не будут пытаться сказать хоть что-нибудь из-за боязни своего "плохого" знания этого языка.

В школе обязательно заниматься английским, но у них мало возможностей упражняться на нем, так что не умеют использовать его на практике.

Originally Posted by basurero

В школе обязательно заниматься английским, но у них мало возможностей упражняться на нем, так что не умеют использовать его на практике.

Кто-то когда-то пошутил, а ты запомнил.

Originally Posted by TATY

It actually is difficult to visit certain countries without speaking the language.

Difficult, yes, especially if you don't know the alphabet well and can't recognize familiar words. That said, I've visited foreign countries without knowing a single word of the language and managed. Simple hand gestures can actually convey quite a bit.

And I don't know where you went in France, but French people don't like speaking Enlgish.

I lived in Paris for about 3 months and Aix-en-Provence for another 4 months. It happened on multiple occasions that a waitor or store clerk would address me in English after I spoke to him in French. Perhaps they were in a hurry, as I was still a relative novice at the time, but I knew enough to order off of menus and carry on a basic conversation.

That said, many a Frenchman also applauded me for speaking French and would try to help me. Or they would ask me questions in English.

Still, I don't think you need to know more than one or two phrases in France to get by just fine in English:

"Pardon/Excuse-moi, je ne parle pas francais. Parlez-vous anglais?"

That should do it. Once you've at least made that much effort, I think you'll almost always get a warm reception.

I think it's good to applaud people for learning foreign languages, but I don't see a reason to lampoon those who don't, especially if their first language is English. That's just me being pragmatic as much as anything.

Originally Posted by Indra

Originally Posted by basurero

В школе обязательно заниматься английским, но у них мало возможностей упражняться на нем, так что не умеют использовать его на практике.

Кто-то когда-то пошутил, а ты запомнил.

xe xe... может быть, я это и подразумевался.

I think it's good to applaud people for learning foreign languages, but I don't see a reason to lampoon those who don't, especially if their first language is English. That's just me being pragmatic as much as anything.

Да, это не по нашей вине. Надо сваливать вину на правительство.