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Thread: Nick's Journal of Coversations, conjugations, and crazy ideas in general

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    Nick's Journal of Conversations, conjugations, and crazy ideas in general

    Hello all,

    I'm going to start this thread to serve as a journal for my learning process. In here I'll post my questions and hopefully have some good conversations with everyone. I hope to contribute to the forum as well but I am far from a teacher of either English или русским.

    Without any further waiting, here we go...

    Я учитьюсь русским на веселье
    I'm learning Russian for fun.

    ты учитьешься русским на любовь к женщине
    Your learning Russian for the love of a woman

    мы учитились многие жизнь уроки растущий выше
    We learned many life lessons growing up.

    сьешь тебе учиться Новое путь в жизнь?
    Are you learning new path's in life?

    How did I do?
    Last edited by nwestnj; March 11th, 2013 at 08:04 PM. Reason: I misspelled conversations in my thread title

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    Can someone let me know where my mistakes are in the translations? Thanks.

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    Властелин iCake's Avatar
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    Я учитьюсь русским на веселье - Я учу русский язык для забавы or Я учусь русскому языку для забавы
    ты учитьешься русским на любовь к женщине - Ты учишь русский ради любви женщины or Ты учишься русскому языку ради любви женщины.
    мы учитились многие жизнь уроки растущий выше - Мы выучили много жизненных уроков пока росли.
    сьешь тебе учиться Новое путь в жизнь? - Ты учишься новым жизненным путям?

    So, let me try to clear up some grammatical stuff to you.

    First of all, every (or the most of) Russian verb has one thing in common and this is ть ending for their infinitive form, like учить, ходить, гулять and so on. The trick here is that you need to drop the ть ending if you conjugate a verb to something different than infinitive. But you didn't
    Original is учитьюсь, учитьешься... but should be учусь, учишься... You see no ть ending here.

    Secondly, you mixed up the right case for the direct object of the verb учиться which was русским. You used the instumental case but should have used the dative one. So, I think I need to explain these two cases a bit.

    Basically, the dative case is named after our verb дать which means to give. So one of the most common sense of the dative case is giving something to somebody, where the somebody part is to be changed to the dative case. Example:
    Я даю яблоко русскому --- I'm giving an apple to a Russian or I'm giving a Russian an apple.

    The instrumental case is basically used to indicate that you used a particular object to do an action that a particular verb describes. Examples:

    Я пишу ручкой - I'm writting with a pen. You used the pen to perform the writting action.
    More abstract example: Я думаю головой - I think with my head. You used the head (well, in this sense, the brain) to perform the thinking action.

    So based on what you wrote - Я учитьюсь русским - this really means that you used a Russian person to perform the learning action which doesn't make any sense.
    However, you can think of the learning action as the proccess of giving yourself or being given a knowledge of something, so if you use the dative case here
    Я учусь русскому языку - that would make sense perfectly, and can be translated as I'm giving myself or being given the knowledge of Russian language.


    Third of all, you used the на preposition incorrectely. It usually describes that something is on top of something, e.g
    Книга на столе - The book is on the table. Я лежу на кровати - I'm lying on the bed and so on.

    Fourth of all, I replaced веселье with забава because забава is kind of more suitable for this situation. As веселье is usually the state of being smiling a lot, laughing a lot, when забава is usually the state of having a good time and feeling good because you're not getting bored, or being entertained. So this should be obvious why I chose забава.

    Well, and finally what was that сьешь тебе учиться Новое путь в жизнь? Сьешь is the imperative of to eat, that orders you eat something completely. Like in:
    Eat it up!
    I hope that helps
    I do not claim that my opinion is absolutely true.
    If you've spotted any mistake in my English, please, correct it. I want to be aware of any mistakes to efficiently eliminate them before they become a habit.

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    спасибо iCake. That was a very well explained message. I think your lesson will give me at least a week or two of content to digest and try to understand.

    ......in other news I am almost finished learning to count cardinal numbers. I have found it odd that the book I am using to study from or websites don't really give a comprehensive list of counting, or maybe I didn't search long enough. For instance many websites give you 1 - 10. Then I found some that will go 100, 1000, 10,000, 1 МИЛЛИОН... Not many good examples in between. The book I am using to study from only gives up to 11,000. Fortunately I found a decent youtube video + my book + some websites to piece a more complete picture together.

    That's all for today. добре ноче

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    I find it interesting that some words such as красный и красивый или прекрасный are so similar. We often subconsciously associate красный with красивый.
    Yulia65 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nwestnj View Post
    I find it interesting that some words such as красный и красивый или прекрасный are so similar. We often subconsciously associate красный with красивый.
    Well noticed! Ethymologically, the modern Russian word for red "красный" used to mean "beautiful" in earlier times. So, "красный" and "красивый" are of the same root indeed. Sometimes this archaic use of "красный" (in the sense of beauty, not color) is still preserved in fixed expressions or proverbs.

    Another interesting fact for you that the famous Red Square in Moscow was translated into English a wrong way. Even many contemporary Russians believe its name (Красная Площадь) really means "Red Square", but it is not correct. It is an old name, and it has to be translated as "Beautiful Square" instead. BTW, the stone which covers the Red Square is not red at all and never was, it is gray in fact.
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    Старший оракул Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    ...It is an old name, and it has to be translated as "Beautiful Square" instead....
    Does this also apply to красный угол?

    Crazy idea: after reading so much of bible in Russian, it occurred: "So that's why я is lower case for people..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Does this also apply to красный угол?

    Crazy idea: after reading so much of bible in Russian, it occurred: "So that's why я is lower case for people..."
    -----
    Yes,
    "Красный угол" would be equivalent to "the place of honor".

    As Ozhegov's Explanatory Dictionary of the Russian Language states, "красный угол" was a special corner in older times in a peasant's hut, across from the furnace/oven, with a table in it and icons on the wall around it.

    Another interesting example of using "красный" in the meaning of "beautiful, nice, bright, good" is a saying "долг платежом красен" (a debt is good when it is paid off).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Crazy idea: after reading so much of bible in Russian, it occurred: "So that's why я is lower case for people..."
    Hmm... Interesting! What do you mean by that, and how is it related to the bible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yulia65 View Post
    Another interesting example of using "красный" in the meaning of "beautiful, nice, bright, good" is a saying "долг платежом красен" (a debt is good when it is paid off).
    And there are more of them in the folklore: "красная девица" (a beautiful girl), "не красна изба углами, а красна пирогами" (a hut is good /beautiful/ not because of its corners, but because of its pies /i.e. which the host offers to guests/).
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    Старший оракул Seraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    Hmm... Interesting! What do you mean by that, and how is it related to the bible?
    When ever an upper case Я, or declined forms of personal pronouns occurs in Russian bible, Меня, Себя, etc, or adjectives Всемогущий etc, that is not initial word of sentence, it never refers to a human. Upper case reserved for God. Or in the old days, majescules for God, miniscules for man. So the thought occurred that a tradition was started in the bible by the scribes that continued on into modern usage. Folk etymology, I know. Maybe Кирилл himself set the tradition.
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    Correct, Seraph.

    Christians in the former Soviet Union will always write "God" and the personal and possessive pronouns referring to God (e.g. "His word", "His only begotten Son", " My ways are not your ways", "Today I have offered you life and death...") with the capital letters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман View Post
    Ethymologically, the modern Russian word for red "красный" used to mean "beautiful" in earlier times. So, "красный" and "красивый" are of the same root indeed. Sometimes this archaic use of "красный" (in the sense of beauty, not color) is still preserved in fixed expressions or proverbs.

    Another interesting fact for you that the famous Red Square in Moscow was translated into English a wrong way. Even many contemporary Russians believe its name (Красная Площадь) really means "Red Square", but it is not correct. It is an old name, and it has to be translated as "Beautiful Square" instead. BTW, the stone which covers the Red Square is not red at all and never was, it is gray in fact.

    Wow!! Thanks for dropping this message here Боб. Its one of the reason I enjoy learning this new language, just getting insight to another culture and history gives me what I am seeking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    When ever an upper case Я, or declined forms of personal pronouns occurs in Russian bible, Меня, Себя, etc, or adjectives Всемогущий etc, that is not initial word of sentence, it never refers to a human. Upper case reserved for God. Or in the old days, majescules for God, miniscules for man. So the thought occurred that a tradition was started in the bible by the scribes that continued on into modern usage. Folk etymology, I know. Maybe Кирилл himself set the tradition.
    Very interesting. I'll have to ask a friend of mine who is a very strict practicing Christian if it is the same in the King James version of the New Testament. I never noticed it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nwestnj View Post
    Wow!! Thanks for dropping this message here Боб. Its one of the reason I enjoy learning this new language, just getting insight to another culture and history gives me what I am seeking.
    I'm glad you liked it. Then here is another example of related words for you.
    "цвет" basically means "color": красный цвет (red color), книга зелёного цвета (a book of green color) (though you can just say "зелёная книга" which means the same), and "цветной" is "colorful": цветные карандаши (pencils of various color);

    "цветок" is "a flower": красивый цветок (a nice flower), красный цветок (a red flower).

    Note: the plural of "цвет" is "цвета" (яркие цвета - bright colors) while the plural of "цветок" is "цветы" (весенние цветы - spring flowers).

    The verb "цвести" means "to blossom": Яблоня цветёт - The apple tree is in blossom (is blossoming).

    Now compare: В моём саду цветут цветы разного цвета. - Flowers of different colors blossom in my garden.

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