Thread: The Mighty Staff

This is my promised story about Gandalf. I was not sure where I should post it because it is not exactly what is meant for “English” forum, neither it for “In Russian only”, although comments may be in Russian. It’s just a little intro, and I don’t know when another parts will be ready, since I’ll have a little spare time next week. So it is more like a claim. Any corrections and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


I

Far, far away, in the distant northern lands, of which the spring barely came into possession, all the nature rejoiced the first pink glimpses of welcoming sun. It was only several days before that the new grass had crept out from the underground and now the sprouts were already boasting their bright green blades before the more sombre shrubs and trees. But the several birches and oaks had their time to produce small and feeble leaves from the buds; their fragrant catkins exhaled the smell that made flies, bugs and beetles fly, crawl and jump madly in all directions. And the pines on the nearby hills had never shed their needles, of course.
A young thrush was sitting on the lower branch of the birch that stood close by a small brook. He had returned home from the first long journey in his life and he could not conceal his excitement. There were troubles and cares yet to be soon in his life, as well as another sort of excitement, but for the time being he could revel the most plain pleasures of life. An old crown watched him disapprovingly from his usual place on a dark grey mossy stone and then made an awkward jump, flapped his wings heavily and flew away.
Had you had a time (and had you been there) you would have noticed a lot of animals swarming in the woods and meadows. There were grass snakes creeping along on their business, there were silent fishes in the pools and brooks. Squirrels were jumping from tree to tree; moles were digging holes in the ground; and rabbits... well, rabbits also did whatever they were supposed to do.

Brilliant, my good sir! Bonus points for the use of the word "catkin." And the rabbits thing. Hee.

But where is the SLASH?

The overall quality of the writing is rather high IMHO. Well done

The bit about the spring 'coming into possession of' is rather interesting .. I wouldn't say it's wrong.

most plain -> plainest .. simplest might be a better word there, and you should revel *in* pleasures.

'Had you had a time' -> Had you had time, or had you had enough time. But it sounds rather awkward anyway.

crown -> crow .. just a fingerfehler I guess

fishes -> fish although I seem to remember there's some controversy over that..

</English teacher> ..

Damn, you kicked my Russian's ass about five times. But you're a translator, so what can I say The writing is really good but there were slight sylistic errors, so I'm gonna jump all over the ones others didn't already address. The student has become the teacher...

all the nature rejoiced the first pink glimpses of welcoming sun.

I would say "all of nature" or "all nature" instead of "all the nature." Don't know why, just sounded a little weird.

that the new grass had crept out from the underground

Again, I would say "that the new grass crept out from underground" and not "the underground."

and beetles fly, crawl and jump madly in all directions.

In Russian when you are listing three or more things, I know you do someting like this: A, B, C and D. But in English it is like this: A, B, C, and D. So change it to "fly, crawl, and jump."

And the pines on the nearby hills had never shed their needles, of course.

You shouldn't begin a written sentence with "And", unlike Russian, so find a different way of saying "And the pines on..."

the birch that stood close by a small brook

There's nothing really wrong with it but I'd change it to "the birch that stood near a small brook" or simply "the birch that stood by a small brook."

He had returned home from the first long journey in his life and he could not conceal his excitement.

We already know the subject is "he" so the second "he" is not needed.

he could revel the most plain pleasures of life.

You revel in something.

from his usual place on a dark grey mossy stone and then made an awkward jump,

I would get rid of the "and" in "and then." Again you have the comma problem later on in the sentence.

There were grass snakes creeping along on their business

Maybe you mean "minding their own business." Unless they had other...er...business to attend to...

Yay, now I feel better about screwing up in Russian, although my errors are much worse

Overall very good. When you are done, we will correct it a little bit and recommend it to some publishers.

Originally Posted by Pravit

and beetles fly, crawl and jump madly in all directions.

In Russian when you are listing three or more things, I know you do someting like this: A, B, C and D. But in English it is like this: A, B, C, and D. So change it to "fly, crawl, and jump."

That one's highly controversial. FWIW I was always taught to leave out that last comma. Could be an interesting topic for the English lounge, or whatever it's called nowadays.

Originally Posted by Pravit

And the pines on the nearby hills had never shed their needles, of course.

You shouldn't begin a written sentence with "And", unlike Russian, so find a different way of saying "And the pines on..."

Oh come come How many novelists actually adhere to that rule??

Originally Posted by Pravit

he could revel the most plain pleasures of life.

You revel in something.

I tink I said dat .. and don't forget about 'most plain'

Originally Posted by Pravit

You shouldn't begin a written sentence with "And", unlike Russian, so find a different way of saying "And the pines on..."

Actually, you shouldn't begin a sentence with "И" in Russian either, although some people (even well established writers!) do. We had a very strict teacher of Russian at school at one point (actually, he was a philologist) and he would rap us on the knuckles for starting sentences with ""И.

Thanx for the corrections. It is very hard indeed, to compose something in another language, like jumping across ice-blocks in the turbulent river.
But on the othe hand you better appreciate words and so.

As for "And" in the beginning of the sentence, I think there may be a special stylistical feature, like in Bible for example. Or in poetry...

The next part will be very soon, may be next day.

Originally Posted by waxwing

Originally Posted by Pravit

and beetles fly, crawl and jump madly in all directions.

In Russian when you are listing three or more things, I know you do someting like this: A, B, C and D. But in English it is like this: A, B, C, and D. So change it to "fly, crawl, and jump."

That one's highly controversial. FWIW I was always taught to leave out that last comma. Could be an interesting topic for the English lounge, or whatever it's called nowadays.

Yes. Monumental - and erroneous - nitpicking on your part there, Pravit. Harvard and the OUP may go in for the serial comma but there's no reason why Propp should: it’s a point of style. You wouldn't, for example, correct the absence of a hyphen from the word 'nit-picking', would you?

Originally Posted by joysof

Originally Posted by waxwing

Originally Posted by Pravit

and beetles fly, crawl and jump madly in all directions.

In Russian when you are listing three or more things, I know you do someting like this: A, B, C and D. But in English it is like this: A, B, C, and D. So change it to "fly, crawl, and jump."

That one's highly controversial. FWIW I was always taught to leave out that last comma. Could be an interesting topic for the English lounge, or whatever it's called nowadays.

Yes. Monumental - and erroneous - nitpicking on your part there, Pravit. Harvard and the OUP may go in for the serial comma but there's no reason why Propp should: it’s a point of style. You wouldn't, for example, correct the absence of a hyphen from the word 'nit-picking', would you?

OK, OK, I get the point. Let's pretend I said "In case you're not aware, most of the time when listing stuff in English it is...bla bla bla...but do whatever you want."
The only reason I said that was because I remembered some time when I was writing a story and somebody told me I was listing things in Russian wrong. And that I should put periods outside of quotation marks instead of inside them, like in English. Nitpicking? Yes. Slightly helpful? Yes.

On second thoughts I decided not to make it a sheer porno trash. I know Gandalf for a long time (since 1976, what a prehistorical time it is!) and respect him too much for this. It should be of ironic style, mocking this slash trash from the Internet.

Here's next excerpt. Well, it is small, because I invented interesting sentences for the following parts, but I haven't made the consistent text yet. Everything in it's due time.

====================
But the only spectator of this natural abundance was an old man who happened to pass by. He seemed not to notice much of the outer world around him and was rather submerged in the inner world of his thoughts. A tall pointed blue hat and a silver scarf covered his face so only the bushy eyebrows and a long white beard were distinctly visible. Wrapped in a grey cloak he strode along a path with the help of a pale wooden staff, but his confident movements could not hide an inner force of his seemingly weak body.

Nevertheless now and there he cast a glance around him and a slight smile ran through his face. Everything was so fascinating — this breeze, this smell of fresh grass and leaves, the singing of birds and buzzing of flies. The coming spring filled his heart with new expectations. What may be more usual for an aged man than a season changing? Yet each time it is like a beginning of a new life, when nothing is determined, no wrong is done, no mistake is made.

But what was there, a sound of metal clinking? This was the sound that none of the animals could produce. As far as he new life, it could hardly be a blacksmith who fancied to stroll in the wood and to take his daily job with him. The old man hastened to climb a small hill near the brook and looked down in a little dell from where this sound emerged. What he saw there made all the joy vanish form his heart.
========================

I also wrote a beginning of a final poem. According the plot of the story Gandalf should loose his staff (to thrust it in an important hole or something like that), he is asked wheter he is not upset, but he replies that it is just a stick, because the true treasure is inside the mind and the heart (or in friendship).


What is a staff? A mere stick,
A thing with what you sometimes prick,
Or sometimes slash, or sometimes walk,
But never speak and never talk.

I'll leave it to native English-speakers to write a detailed criticism, but here is what I spotted:

"As far as he new life, it could hardly be a blacksmith"

knew (a mere typo, I know )

"Nevertheless now and there"

Don't you need a comma after nevertheless? And I suspect you wanted to say "now and then", didn't you?

"This was the sound that none of the animals could produce."

I think that "a" would work better here.

You poem is great, and rhymes are good, but the meter in the first line is broken. Don't forget that "mere" is a one-syllable word.

Also, "a thing with what" - sounds wrong to me.

My error-bell rang in some other places too, but I think Pravit and others will make a better job of correcting you than I possibly can.

But a great job nonetheless

Concerning the poem: The metrum seems to be pum-pudduh-pum-pudduh-pum (don't know the exact term), and even though the number of syllables fit, the stress falls on some syllables that can't take it, or just sound weird when they're stressed.

What is a staff? A mere stick
= _ _ = _ _ = (good)
A thing with which you sometimes prick,
(_) = _ _ = _ _ = (stress is on the 'you')
Or sometimes slash, or sometimes walk,
(_) = _ _ = _ _ = (stress on the first 'some' and 'or')
But never speak and never talk.
(_) = _ _ = _ _ = (stress on the 'and')

Better would be something like:

What is a staff? A mere stick.
A thing you'd use either to prick
Or to slash, or perhaps just to walk,
But never to speak with or talk.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Jasper May

Concerning the poem: The metrum seems to be pum-pudduh-pum-pudduh-pum (don't know the exact term), and even though the number of syllables fit, the stress falls on some syllables that can't take it, or just sound weird when they're stressed.

What is a staff? A mere stick
= _ _ = _ _ = (good)
A thing with which you sometimes prick,
(_) = _ _ = _ _ = (stress is on the 'you')
Or sometimes slash, or sometimes walk,
(_) = _ _ = _ _ = (stress on the first 'some' and 'or')
But never speak and never talk.
(_) = _ _ = _ _ = (stress on the 'and')

Better would be something like:

What is a staff? A mere stick.
A thing you'd use either to prick
Or to slash, or perhaps just to walk,
But never to speak with or talk.

Hope this helps.

Jasper, the meter you are talking about is talking is called dactilus (dactylic trimeter with male rhymes).

However, I believe that Propp had in mind iambic tetrameter:

_=_=_=_= (with some stresses missing in some lines).

So I think this would sound better:

What is a staff? It's just a stick,
A thing with which you sometimes prick... (and so on)

You're right. I was extrapolating the metre of his first line (which apparently is a 'dactylic trimeter with male rhymes' ), and then it doesn't work. But you're method works just as well. Only the first line doesn't scan too well, because you stress the 'is', while you'd better stress the 'what'. So maybe:

So what's a staff? It's just a stick... etc.

All I know about dactylic is that it kind of sounds like that song "My Sharona." Heh. Our English teacher sung it to explain it to us.

Originally Posted by Pravit

All I know about dactylic is that it kind of sounds like that song "My Sharona." Heh. Our English teacher sung it to explain it to us.

Pravit! Is that all you can say about the second installment?

Ай-яй-яй!

Oh, heh, sorry, I saw so many other posts so I figured someone had corrected it between then and now. Now I know how you Russians feel when I post stuff...

Please do forgive me but I'd like to correct your English out of the story too. Anything in this thread's game.

On second thoughts I decided not to make it a sheer porno trash.

On second thought, I decided not to make it a sheer porno trash.

I know Gandalf for a long time

I've known Gandalf for a long time.

(since 1976, what a prehistorical time it is!)

I would leave out the "it is."

Here's next excerpt.

Here's the next excerpt.

but I haven't made the consistent text yet.

But I haven't made the text consistent yet.

====================

was an old man who happened to pass by.

For some reason, I want to say "who had happened to pass by" here. This makes it seem like the old man was already there, I suppose. The original sentence doesn't have him come until you say so - and since you say he was the spectator of everything you described above, presumably he was already there. Your call, though.

much of the outer world around him

"outer world" already implies the world around him. So you pick: He didn't notice much of the world around him, or he didn't notice much of the outer world.

A tall pointed blue hat and a silver scarf covered his face so only the bushy eyebrows and a long white beard were distinctly visible.

I would make it "so that", or get rid of "so" and put a semicolon in. I would get rid of "the" in "the bushy eyebrows", because you have the indefinite article with his beard.

could not hide an inner force of his seemingly weak body.

I am more inclined to say THE inner force.

Nevertheless now and there he cast a glance around him

I'd put a comma after "nevertheless", and as TNMRU said earlier, "now and then" and not "now and there."

this breeze, this smell of fresh grass and leaves, the singing of birds and buzzing of flies.

I would change it to THE breeze, THE smell of fresh grass and leaves. Especially since later on in the sentence you change to the definite article. "This" makes it sound like Gandalf is talking.

What may be more usual for an aged man than a season changing?

What COULD be more usual, I'd say. "a season changing" is correct but sounds kind of weird. Maybe "the change of seasons"?

Yet each time it is like a beginning of a new life, when nothing is determined, no wrong is done, no mistake is made.

I would rewrite the sentence like this:
Yet each time it is like the beginning of a new life; nothing has been determined, no wrong has been done, no mistakes have been made.

But what was there, a sound of metal clinking?

Nothing really wrong here. But I feel more inclined to say "But what was there - the sound of metal clinking?" Or even "the clink of metal" or "a metallic clink."

This was the sound that none of the animals could produce.

This was A sound that..

As far as he new life,

knew

it could hardly be a blacksmith who fancied to stroll in the wood and to take his daily job with him.

For some reason the use of "hardly" here seems strange. But I don't know how to write it correctly. Sorry, I have bad English. I'd change "wood" to "woods."

The old man hastened to climb a small hill near the brook and looked down in a little dell from where this sound emerged.

He looks down to a little dell.

What he saw there made all the joy vanish form his heart.

Good suspense.

I suck at poetry(as I mentioned earlier, "My Sharona" is all I remember of my poetry education), so I'll let the other posts about the poem suffice. I liked it, though.

Originally Posted by Pravit

On second thoughts I decided not to make it a sheer porno trash.

On second thought, I decided not to make it a sheer porno trash.

That's weird. I *always* say ' (on) second thoughts'.

Originally Posted by Pravit

it could hardly be a blacksmith who fancied to stroll in the wood and to take his daily job with him.

For some reason the use of "hardly" here seems strange. But I don't know how to write it correctly. Sorry, I have bad English. I'd change "wood" to "woods."

The use of 'hardly' seems quite normal to me here. However, the verb 'fancy' takes a gerund, not an infinitive. You could therefore write:
..it could hardly be a blacksmith who fancied strolling in the wood(s)..
but more natural, to me, is:
..it could hardly be a blacksmith who fancied a stroll in the wood(s)..

Originally Posted by Pravit

The old man hastened to climb a small hill near the brook and looked down in a little dell from where this sound emerged.

He looks down to a little dell.

..or 'looked down on..' or 'looked down upon..' (stylistically that fits)

Great use of imagery!
cool
kat

Originally Posted by waxwing

Originally Posted by Pravit

On second thoughts I decided not to make it a sheer porno trash.

On second thought, I decided not to make it a sheer porno trash.

That's weird. I *always* say ' (on) second thoughts'.

Hmmm. I googled both of them and I got 107,000 hits for "on second thought" and 27,000 for "on second thoughts." Maybe it's an American/British thing. My English is kind of bad, so maybe I'm wrong.

Agree all the way with the rest of waxwing's corrections.