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Thread: The Mighty Staff

  1. #21
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    yes, yes I tried the google search the sloppy way and got similar results. But then I couldn't decide exactly what they meant.

    Now I've tried it the proper way, using the exact phrase, and got the same result as you.

    So then I tried it again, using www.google.co.uk, and using the 'search pages from UK option.
    Result:
    'on second thoughts' : 6220
    'on second thought' : 3150
    From which I suppose we are forced to conclude that it is indeed an 'across the pond' thing.

    That google thing is pretty 'neat' as you yanks say, eh?
    Well after all, it was set up by a Russian.

    Now I am wondering how www.google.com.ru deals with inflections ..
    Море удачи и дачу у моря

  2. #22
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    Thinking about Google

    [Thought], as a verb, is the past tense of [think]. As a noun it can be inter alia the act of thinking; an opinion or idea; application of mental attention - as in 'he gave the matter some thought. As a noun, it can be singular or plural. So, it is a matter of fact - was it a single thought, or was the process over time, in which case, 'on second thoughts'.

    For me, it is usually going to be, 'on second thoughts'.

    What is it with the Google thing? If Google returned 5 examples of one and 20,000 of another I might think about relying on the big hitter. Better would be a multi-search engine like Copernic; only searching relevant or academic literature; or perhaps using a reliable on-line reference - Anybody know one?

  3. #23
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    Re: Thinking about Google

    Quote Originally Posted by майк
    [Thought], as a verb, is the past tense of [think]. As a noun it can be inter alia the act of thinking; an opinion or idea; application of mental attention - as in 'he gave the matter some thought. As a noun, it can be singular or plural. So, it is a matter of fact - was it a single thought, or was the process over time, in which case, 'on second thoughts'.

    For me, it is usually going to be, 'on second thoughts'.
    Sorry, not buying that. Second is an ordinal, not a cardinal number - второй. If we line up 10 apples, there is only one second apple. Similarly there is only one 'second thought'. But in the end, trying to work it out logically doesn't usually help.

    It seems to be generally true that many American English variants to British English are either simplifications, or to put it more charitably, things which tend to make the language more logical. Obvious example: closer matching of phonetics with spelling.
    I guess/suppose it's easy to understand the historical reasons for that.



    Quote Originally Posted by майк
    What is it with the Google thing?
    Laziness in my case. I agree that those numbers don't really prove anything.
    Море удачи и дачу у моря

  4. #24
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    @waxwing: Your argument is top notch, I liked it a lot

    I guess the problem is that [thought] tries hard not to be constrained to a single event. It is, in fact, not a single event, like a second apple or a second chance or a second rugby match - although the match takes a while the event, the match, is a single thing.

    I am OK with, "I had a second thought", that kind of corrals the thought into one place! But 'On second thoughts', you know, I'm not sure anymore

  5. #25
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    Dictionary.com's entry on the subject suggests that either is okay. As a speaker of American English, I would never say "second thoughts," and since the quote provided by Dictionary.com is Dickens, I assume it is a British vs. US English thing.

  6. #26
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    To tell the truth, I noticed this kind of phrase "on second thoughts", when I saw "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", and this is, of course, the British film.
    The meter in the final poem is iambic tetrameter indeed. There may be omissions and the wrong secondary stresses, as far as I know. So you may think that it is like
    --/-V/-V/-V

    or
    v-/-V//-V/-V

    where v is secondary stress and V is primary one. / means the foot, and // means caesura.(Oh my, what words! We studied this in the University, but I forgot everything).

    Unfortunately, I have a loads of works these days and this is my only brief
    visit here. But don't despair, the story will be continued...

  7. #27
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    Near the far steep end of the dell a dozen of men were fighting with each other. Or rather with one of them. The old man looked at him more intently and saw that it was not a man but a dwarf in the red leather jacket and rusty mail with whom others were fighting. His scarlet axe swished around him like a scythe in the hands of a hard-working farmer but a dozen to one was too much even for a skilled dwarf. The others were a riff-raff of the rogues in black shabby coats and pirates with black and red scarves around their necks (the coast of Western Sea was not far away form there). But the way they brandished their swords and cutlasses suggested that some of them received more regular military training than a mere vagabond is supposed to get in these parts.

    ‘Stay away, ye impudent rascals!’ roared an old man with unusually forceful voice.

    All involved in the fighting, including the dwarf, stopped for a little and cast a glance on this strange old man. But after a moment the battle was resumed. Only the smallest of the rogues spat on the ground and said with crooked smile on his crooked face:

    ‘Mind yer own business, gaffer, and we may spare yer life after we've done in this stupid midget!’

    ‘Then don’t say I haven’t warned you!’ said the old man, but nobody heeded his words anymore.

    All of a sudden the old man drew himself up to his full height and stretched his arms. The folds of his grey cloak threw open and snow-white robes became visible under them. Then he brought his straightened hands together before him, gripping the staff with both of them. The staff seemed to have changed in colour as well in size; it looked as if a kind of inner energy filled the whole of his structure. The pale pinkish glow spread all along its length culminating at the bulbous head. The impression was that the hands of its owner hardly held this stick, so vivid, so vibrant and so ready to spring out.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    Near the far steep end of the dell
    Multiple adjectives are always tricky (word order etc.). This sounds very awkward, it might be a little better if you use a comma:
    Near the far, steep end...

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    a dozen of men
    You only need 'of' if the noun is preceded by an article or pronoun:
    a dozen of the men OK
    a dozen of them OK
    a dozen of his friends OK
    a dozen of men NOT OK
    a dozen men OK
    the same is true if 'a dozen' is replaced by: many, most, some etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    were fighting with each other.
    Prefer: 'fighting each other', or 'fighting' simply. We tend to use 'fighting with' as : 'they were fighting with swords'. If you want to emphasise the opponent, you can use: 'fighting against'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    Or rather with one of them.
    This doesn't really work because of the 'with' problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    The old man looked at him more intently and saw that it was not a man but a dwarf in the red leather jacket and rusty mail with whom others were fighting.
    Go for 'in a red leather jacket'. 'the' suggests that the jacket is something about which the reader already knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    His scarlet axe swished around him like a scythe in the hands of a hard-working farmer but a dozen to one was too much even for a skilled dwarf.
    отлично

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    The others were a riff-raff of the rogues in black shabby coats and pirates with black and red scarves around their necks (the coast of Western Sea was not far away form there).
    Article problems again here: why 'the' rogues? Which rogues? And 'the Western Sea' (articles with geographical things are notoriously difficult).

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    But the way they brandished their swords and cutlasses suggested that some of them received more regular military training than a mere vagabond is supposed to get in these parts.
    ‘Stay away, ye impudent rascals!’ roared an old man with unusually forceful voice.
    Great. I assume your use of the indefinite article was deliberate, indicating the viewpoint of the fighters, who don't recognise the 'hero' of our story

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    All involved in the fighting, including the dwarf, stopped for a little and cast a glance on this strange old man.
    We cast glances at things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    But after a moment the battle was resumed. Only the smallest of the rogues spat on the ground and said with crooked smile on his crooked face:
    ‘Mind yer own business, gaffer, and we may spare yer life after we've done in this stupid midget!’
    Well I don't see a mistake, but the 'register' is interesting. I'm not sure if 'done in' and 'gaffer' fit into this kind of context. They're both quite British too I think, probably that doesn't bother you

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    ‘Then don’t say I haven’t warned you!’ said the old man, but nobody heeded his words anymore.
    All of a sudden the old man drew himself up to his full height and stretched his arms. The folds of his grey cloak threw open and snow-white robes became visible under them.
    we need either:
    the folds ... were thrown open
    or:
    He threw open ..

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    Then he brought his straightened hands together before him, gripping the staff with both of them. The staff seemed to have changed in colour as well in size; it looked as if a kind of inner energy filled the whole of his structure.
    its - his

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    The pale pinkish glow spread all along its length culminating at the bulbous head. The impression was that the hands of its owner hardly held this stick, so vivid, so vibrant and so ready to spring out.
    Outstanding. It seemed to get better as you went along, too
    Море удачи и дачу у моря

  9. #29
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    Yay! Wh00hoo!!! Story continued!!!

    Disclaimer: Pravit's standard disclaimer and stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    Near the far steep end of the dell a dozen of men were fighting with each other.
    Near the far steep end of the dell, a dozen of men were fighting each other (Comma after "dell", "fighting each other" without "with". I know it is not a mistake to say "fight with somebody", but it seems unnecessary here)

    Or rather with one of them.
    Or rather, they were fighting against one of them.

    The old man looked at him more intently and saw that it was not a man but a dwarf in the red leather jacket and rusty mail with whom others were fighting.
    a red leather jacket. Besides, the enire sentence sounds somewhat... well, not elegant.


    His scarlet axe swished around him like a scythe in the hands of a hard-working farmer but a dozen to one was too much even for a skilled dwarf.
    What's wrong with this one? Hmmm, can't see anything wrong here. Why am I quoting it then???? Wait, I just wanted to say I liked it!

    (the coast of Western Sea was not far away form there).
    Nothing really wrong with this one either, but I'd say "(the coast of the Western Sea being not far away)". "From there" is redundant.

    "...than a mere vagabond is supposed to get in these parts".

    Maybe it is just me, but I think that "supposed" creates a slight comical effect here. "Wouldn't "expected" be better? (I don't insist on this, just wondering).

    All involved in the fighting, including the dwarf, stopped for a little and cast a glance on this strange old man.
    "All those involved in fighting, including the dwarf, stopped for a moment and looked at this this strange old man" or "stopped for a moment to have a look/to cast a glance"


    Only the smallest of the rogues spat on the ground and said with crooked smile on his crooked face:
    Hmmm. Have you ever thought about writing as a career? In Russian, I mean. I just love this one .

    Can't continue at the moment, perhaps later

    I hope some native English-speaker will correct me if I goofed somewhere and cover the remainder of your wonderful story. I am not pointing the finger at anyone in particular, but Pravit, do you hear me?

  10. #30
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    Brilliant. I've tried to address some structural and grammatical points without changing the quality of your excellent piece. I offer no explanation, I can only speak English, I've no idea how it works

    Near the steep, far end of the dell, a dozen men were fighting each other. Or rather, with one of them. The old man looked intensely at the man with whom the others were fighting and saw that it was not a man but a dwarf in a red leather jacket and rusty mail. His scarlet axe swished around him like a scythe in the hands of a hard-working farmer, but a dozen-to-one was too much even for such a skilled dwarf. The others were a riff-raff of rogues, in black shabby coats, and pirates with black and red scarves around their necks: the coast of the Western Sea was not far away. The way they brandished their swords and cutlasses suggested that some of them received more regular military training than a mere vagabond is supposed to get in these parts.

    ‘Stay away, ye impudent rascals!’ roared an old man with an unusually forceful voice.

    All those involved in the fighting, including the dwarf, stopped for a little while and glance at the strange old man. But, after a moment, the battle resumed. The smallest of the rogues spat on the ground and said, with a crooked smile on his crooked face:

    ‘Mind yer own business, gaffer, and we may spare yer life after we've done over this stupid midget!’

    ‘Then don’t say I haven’t warned you!’ said the old man; but nobody heeded his words anymore.

    All of a sudden, the old man drew himself up to his full height and stretched out his arms. The folds of his grey cloak flew open and snow-white robes became visible underneath. Then, he brought together his straightened hands, gripping the staff between them. The staff seemed to have changed in colour, as well as in size; it looked as if a kind of inner energy had filled the whole of its structure. A pale pinkish glow spread along its length culminating at the bulbous head. The impression was that the hands of its owner barely held the stick, so vivid, so vibrant, and so ready to slash out.

  11. #31
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    About "dozen". I also thought it should be "a dozen men" but then I supposed as far as it is a noun and not a numeral, then it should be something like "a handful of dust" or "a bunch of keys". May be I was wrong. But the article "a" remains, does it? With numerals you don't say "*a ten men" or "*a twelve men" after all.

    Майк: You write "with whom the others were fighting" and waxwing said the "with" is wrong here. After I had posted this excerpt I remembered that it should be "fight each other" or "against somebody" but is "with" somebody also possible?

  12. #32
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    Wow. I just realized that Waxwing posted his reply while I was writing mine. It was curious to compare our comments

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    About "dozen". I also thought it should be "a dozen men" but then I supposed as far as it is a noun and not a numeral, then it should be something like "a handful of dust" or "a bunch of keys". May be I was wrong. But the article "a" remains, does it? With numerals you don't say "*a ten men" or "*a twelve men" after all.
    Good question!
    First, one thing is simple : a dozen = twelve, dozen takes the article but numerals don't (but be careful to contrast with dozens, which just means a large number (say 20-100)). So maybe we can say 'a dozen' is a numeral in disguise?
    Note, 'a dozen of men' is 100% wrong, no debate there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    Майк: You write "with whom the others were fighting" and waxwing said the "with" is wrong here. After I had posted this excerpt I remembered that it should be "fight each other" or "against somebody" but is "with" somebody also possible?
    It is possible, people talk or write like that sometimes. But it's a bit dodgy, personally I don't like it If you want, you can replace 'with' with 'against' in Mike's example.
    Море удачи и дачу у моря

  14. #34
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    ‘with’ means inter alia using, accompanying, possessing: there seems to be some kind of collaboration.

    ‘Men were fighting each other’
    ‘Men were fighting against each other’
    ‘Men were fighting with swords’

    Parents will say, ‘The kids were fighting with each other’ – because it shows a collaboration.

    So is, ‘The man looked at the man with whom the others were fighting’ incorrect? No idea. There is more of a collaboration here; the man was looking at men fighting together

  15. #35
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    The story continues
    -----------------------
    The face of the old man was now stern and strict, but nonetheless beautiful in its severity. The blast of a wind scattered about his strands of gray hair and the beads of sweat came out on his forhead. The strange and vibrant sounds of unknown language issued from his lips and the slopes of the dell echoed with dull thumps. All the rogues and the dwarf stopped fighting and stood still motionless in awe, listening to this ominous incantation.
    ‘Dalath than atgaggandin imma af fairgunja…’

    Each syllable was louder and more distinct than the previous one, until the voice was roused to a deafening pitch, but the end of the phrase was pronounced as if the old man fell short in breath and hardly could endure the tension himself. At this point the body of the old man strained, his staff jerked in his hands, and white jets of smoke sputtered out from its head. They whirled in the air a little and swooped down on the rogues with hissing noise. The rogues and pirates threw their weapons and took to flight, scattering in different directions, their heads hiding in the puffs of gauze. The small rogue fell on the ground and was waving his arms and legs desperately. His face had grown unnaturally red and he was coughing as if he was going to vomit his intestines inside out. The hot jets got into his clothes and made his body twitching.

    The dwarf lay on his back and clutched his axe; the only movement was the movement of his eyes when he saw the jets of smoke wavering around him in the air. They were flying close but they didn’t touch him.

    The old wizard — everyone had to admit now that he was a wizard — stood for a while panting and leaning on his staff, which now seemed dwindled. He didn’t paid attention to the havoc he made. Then he wrapped himself up in his grey cloak and went down the slope. The small rogue jumped on his feet, let out a shriek of utmost horror and dashed away. The dwarf didn’t utter a word, he only cowered back and frowned when the wizard came closer.

  16. #36
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    BLASTED Internet Explorer! I hit control-I because I forgot I was in IE and I wanted italics, and it froze! Так что пришлось это написать в второй раз.

    Anyhow, if anyone wants to contest my English corrections, I'll let them win, as my knowledge of English grammar is rather lacking. Now then, let's get on with it!

    The blast of a wind
    Here it is not clear if this was a random wind that caused it(sometimes the weather changes for dramatical effect ) or if the wind was part of his spell. If you are trying to be intentionally unclear about this, you could say "A blast of wind." If you mean its part of his spell, perhaps "A blast of sudden wind" or something to tell us that it is an unnatural wind.

    the beads of sweat
    Unless the beads of sweat are part of his spell(the spirits burst out from the staff...the fireballs surrounded him...) then it's best to say just "beads of sweat."

    The strange and vibrant sounds of unknown language
    Really minor one, but I'd say "of an unknown language." It's probably OK like it is. I can always attribute my bad English grammar to American usage, heh.

    All the rogues and the dwarf stopped fighting
    I think this applies in Russian too: You don't need the all here; "The rogues (and the dwarf) stopped fighting" already conveys that all of the rogues stopped fighting.

    stood still motionless
    You can either have one or the other, standing still or standing motionless, but not both.

    Each syllable was louder and more distinct than the previous one, until the voice was roused to a deafening pitch, but the end of the phrase was pronounced as if the old man fell short in breath and hardly could endure the tension himself.
    Bravo!! I couldn't have written it better myself.

    with hissing noise.
    I'd say "with a hissing noise", but maybe that's just preference.

    The rogues and pirates threw their weapons
    Maybe they "threw down their weapons" or "threw away their weapons", otherwise it could be interpreted that they threw their weapons at Gandalf or the staff. If it's the latter case, you should make it more clear that they threw them to defend themselves then run.

    their heads hiding in the puffs of gauze.
    I think gauze is that stuff you put into a wound to stop it from bleeding. Maybe you meant "haze"? But anyhow, this sentence sounds kind of weird anyway. Did you mean that the smoke or whatever made their heads hard to see? In that case, maybe "their heads dissapeared into the whirling smoke" or something. Somebody can probably write this better.

    The small rogue fell on the ground and was waving his arms and legs desperately.
    This makes it sound like he was waving his arms and legs before he fell down, while he was falling down, and after he fell down. If you really meant that, then perhaps "The small rogue fell on the ground, waving his arms and legs desperately." If you meant he fell down and then began waving his arms and legs, then "the small rogue fell on the ground and waved his arms and legs desperately."

    The hot jets got into his clothes and made his body twitching.
    They made his body twitch. Heh, I couldn't help but chuckle at this scene with him twitching.

    the only movement
    Maybe his only movement, because those jets of smoke are certainly moving around, and just watch that little rogue go! Heh.

    They were flying close but they didn’t touch him.
    Don't need second "they."

    stood for a while leaning on his staff, which now seemed dwindled.
    Definitely a gem, after the previous descriptions of his staff action!

    He didn’t paid attention to the havoc he made.
    "the havoc he had made", I'd say.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    Anyhow, if anyone wants to contest my English corrections, I'll let them win
    Too generous
    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    Each syllable was louder and more distinct than the previous one, until the voice was roused to a deafening pitch, but the end of the phrase was pronounced as if the old man fell short in breath and hardly could endure the tension himself.
    Bravo!! I couldn't have written it better myself.
    Pravit, don't you think 'rouse' is the wrong verb here? Of course 'raise' would be fine. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought rouse would only be used to wake someone from sleep, or for an emotion or an action (roused into action). Can a voice really be roused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    He didn’t paid attention to the havoc he made.
    "the havoc he had made", I'd say.
    Don't forget that 'didn't paid' should be 'didn't pay'.
    Море удачи и дачу у моря

  18. #38
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    So far the main problem is with the articles as I see...

    the voice was roused to a deafening pitch
    should of been 'rose' of course, I mixed 'to rise' and 'to rouse'...

    -----------------------------------------
    “I hope those bastards won’t get back here for a while”, said the wizard, “So you may safely continue your journey or whatever it was. Since the only way is for the town of Bumbleton in the North, this is your destination, I reckon. We could travel there together, if you don’t mind.”
    The dwarf stood up and shook off the dust from his jacket. His eyes kept piercing the old man with suspecting and distrustful look.
    “I humbly thank you for what you have done, good stranger, but we dwarves are a bit of mistrustful folk and don’t make an easy company. ‘Never take up with strangers, unless you or they are going to be sorry for that’ my father used to say; the wise dwarf he was.”
    “Then let us be introduced to each other and we’ll be no strangers anymore”, said the wizard. “I am known under many names, but the most common one is Gandalf in these parts.”
    “Balin, son of Fundin”, said the dwarf and made a low bow. After a while he added “at your service” as it was in the custom of dwarves.
    “I’ll graciously ask for that if I’ll need one, the son of the most cautious father” answered Gandalf.
    This unsuspected answer confused Balin and he stood a little, not knowing whether he should say something pleasant or feel offended; but after a thought he came to a conclusion that is the way of wizards who always like to muddle simple folk and that he should better pay no attention to his tricks.
    With the help of his staff Gandalf had already climbed up the slope and turned to see Balin who was going up with some difficulty, not having recovered from the physical exertion of the fight. The old man extended his staff, as if proposing the dwarf to get hold of it, but Balin twitched as if in horror; he raised and waved both hands and nearly fell down on his back. Gandalf said nothing, but a hint of laughter sparkled in his eyes and the barely noticeable smile flashed on his face.
    -------------------------------

  19. #39
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    Ok, my turn. No disclaimers needed: I speak beautiful English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    So far the main problem is with the articles as I see...
    Yup. Pretty flawless otherwise.

    Since the only way is for the town of Bumbleton in the North
    A little odd. Insert 'to make'?: 'Since the only way is to make for the town of Bumbleton in the North...'

    The dwarf stood up and shook off the dust from his jacket.
    'Off' is redundant here, but not strictly wrong.

    His eyes kept piercing the old man
    Again, odd. 'Continued to pierce'?

    with suspecting and distrustful look.
    'a suspecting and distrustful look'

    “I humbly thank you for what you have done, good stranger, but we dwarves are a bit of mistrustful folk
    'we dwarves are rather mistrustful folk.' Can't have 'a bit' of a plural.

    don’t make an easy company
    Drop the article here. Or you could have 'don't make for easy company' - pleasantly colloquial.

    ‘Never take up with strangers, unless you or they are going to be sorry for that’
    'Sorry for it'.

    my father used to say; the wise dwarf he was.”
    Semi-colon should, strictly, be a comma. (Begins with 'P', ends with 'edantry'...)

    “I am known under many names
    'By many names'?

    After a while he added “at your service” as it was in the custom of dwarves.
    '...as was the custom amongst dwarves.'

    “I’ll graciously ask for that if I’ll need one
    '...if I need it'.

    the son of the most cautious father”
    Difficult one this - I presume you mean it as a form of address. How about 'son of a most cautious father'? Christ, English is hard.

    This unsuspected answer
    I think you mean 'unexpected'.

    confused Balin and he stood a little
    You can 'wait a little' and 'think a little' but 'stood a little' is - a little (!) -unusual. Perhaps 'stood a while'?

    but after a thought
    'After some thought'

    he came to a conclusion that
    Swap indefinite for definite, article-wise.

    that is the way of wizards who always like to muddle simple folk
    Grammar breaks down here. Needs a 'such' before the 'is'.

    and that he should better pay no attention to his tricks.
    Somewhat odd. I would have said 'and that he would do best to pay no attention to his tricks.'

    The old man extended his staff, as if proposing the dwarf to get hold of it,
    '...as if proposing that the dwarf should get [take?] hold of it'.
    [OR, as you had it:]
    '...as if proposing to the dwarf to get [take?] hold of it'.

    and the barely noticeable smile flashed on his face.
    Article! Change!

    That's all. If I didn't hate your subject matter, I'd be very impressed...
    А если отнять еще одну?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    Ok, my turn. No disclaimers needed: I speak beautiful English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Propp
    So far the main problem is with the articles as I see...
    Yup. Pretty flawless otherwise.

    Since the only way is for the town of Bumbleton in the North
    A little odd. Insert 'to make'?: 'Since the only way is to make for the town of Bumbleton in the North...'
    yes, or maybe he meant something like 'since the only road/path leads to Bumbleton in the North'

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    The dwarf stood up and shook off the dust from his jacket.
    'Off' is redundant here, but not strictly wrong.
    I'd actually prefer to leave the 'off', but i agree it's just a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    His eyes kept piercing the old man
    Again, odd. 'Continued to pierce'?
    Not very odd, is it? You could also say kept on piercing. The problem (if indeed there is one) with 'kept' is that it suggests a repeated action, rather than a continuous one. But this doesn't seem too clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    “I humbly thank you for what you have done, good stranger, but we dwarves are a bit of mistrustful folk
    'we dwarves are rather mistrustful folk.' Can't have 'a bit' of a plural.
    I'm not convinced that 'folk' must always be used as a plural. cf people: ('we are a proud people', subtly different from 'we are proud people'). So, I think possible, though maybe not great, is: 'a bit of a mistrustful folk'. Then race might be better than folk.
    [/quote]

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    ‘Never take up with strangers, unless you or they are going to be sorry for that’
    'Sorry for it'.
    I think there's a slight 'logic' problem with that sentence. The 'unless' suggests an intention to be sorry for something in the future, which sounds strange to me. I'd replace 'unless' with 'or', as well as the correction given by joysof.

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    my father used to say; the wise dwarf he was.”
    Semi-colon should, strictly, be a comma. (Begins with 'P', ends with 'edantry'...)
    Also an article problem here maybe. Either:
    my father used to say, wise dwarf that he was.
    or:
    my father used to say; a wise dwarf was he. (archaic but possibly fits the style)
    or:
    my father used to say ... he was a wise dwarf.

    He wasn't the only wise dwarf, was he?

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    confused Balin and he stood a little
    You can 'wait a little' and 'think a little' but 'stood a little' is - a little (!) -unusual. Perhaps 'stood a while'?
    I guess Propp is wishing English had a по- prefix . Maybe the best is just 'He hesitated' even though the meaning is not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    that is the way of wizards who always like to muddle simple folk
    Grammar breaks down here. Needs a 'such' before the 'is'.
    I agree that the sentence needs work, but conceivably Propp only needs two changes there:
    but after a thought he came to a conclusion that that is the way of wizards who always like to muddle simple folk and that he had (not should) better pay no attention to his tricks.

    Look for ways to break up the sentence, or reduce the number of words.

    Quote Originally Posted by joysof
    and that he should better pay no attention to his tricks.
    Somewhat odd. I would have said 'and that he would do best to pay no attention to his tricks.'
    Yeah, or that.
    Море удачи и дачу у моря

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