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Thread: PART IV: Using the Language - Finally!

  1. #1
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    PART IV: Using the Language - Finally!

    Привет всем!

    Ниже ещё одна попытка писать по-русски!

    Пожалуйста, исправьте ошибки!

    Большое спасибо!

    <<Пока Анна! Сейчас я к Сергею подохожу.>> Антон говорит. Он выходит дома.
    "Bye Anna! I am going to see/ meet with Sergei now.", Anton says. He leaves the house.

    Он звонит Сергею. <<Привет Сергей!>>
    He telephones Segei. "Hi Sergei!"

    <<Кто это?>>, отвечает Сергей.
    "Who is this?", answers Sergei.

    <<Это Антон! Как у тебя дело? Сегодня мы ещё встретимся друг с другой?>>
    "Its Anton! How are you? Are we still meeting one another today?"

    <<Нормально! Да, конечно ешё я хочу встретить с тобой сегодня!>>
    "I'm ok! Yes, of course I still want to meet with you today!" Говорит Сергей.

    <<Хорошо! Где мы встретимся?>>
    "Great! Where shall we meet?"

    <<Прости? Мне не был слышно. Что ты сказал?>>
    "Pardon. I didn't hear. What did you say?"

    <<Где ты бы хотел встретить с мной?>> кричает Антон по телефону.
    "Where would you like to meet me?", Anton shouts down the telephone.

    <<Давай встретимся в кафе рядом с квартирой Пётра>>
    "Let's meet at the café next to Peter's apartment."

    <<Хорошая идея! Очень вкусное мороженое есть там! Давай встретимся в три! До скорой встречи!>>
    "Good idea! There is very tasty ice cream there! Let's meet at three o'clock. See you soon!"

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    <Пока Анна! Сейчас я к Сергею подохожу.>> Антон говорит. Он выходит дома.
    "Пока Анна! Я собираюсь сейчас встретиться с Сергеем." Говорит Антон. Он выходит из дома.
    "to be going to..." is usually translated as "собираться что-то делать/сделать"
    I'm going to have dinner - Я собираюсь ужинать.
    He is going to theater - Он собирается в театр.




    <Это Антон! Как у тебя дело? Сегодня мы ещё встретимся друг с другой?>>
    "Это Антон. Как у тебя дела? Мы всё ещё встречаемся сегодня?

    The correct form is "Друг с другом". But you don't need to repeat it as "мы" already implies both of them and as i already mentioned Russian language dosen't like when the same idea is repeated in one sentence.

    <<Нормально! Да, конечно ешё я хочу встретить с тобой сегодня!>>
    Нормально! (Дела в порядке)! Да, конечно, я всё ещё хочу встретиться с тобой сегодня."

    <<Прости? Мне не был слышно. Что ты сказал?>>
    "Прости, я не расслышал (or мне плохо слышно), что ты сказал?"

    <<Где ты бы хотел встретить с мной?>> кричает Антон по телефону.
    "Где бы ты хотел встретиться со мной?" кричит Антон в телефон.

    Давай встретимся в кафе рядом с квартирой Пётра
    It is "Петра" not "Пётра". The Nom is really Пётр but all the rest cases use the root Петр[]
    Пётр
    Петра
    Петру
    Петре
    Петром
    I guess it happens because the letter "ё" is always under the stress and it condratics with the usual for the objective cases stress, that is why it is "e" standing instead. But it is only a guess.

    Хорошая идея! Очень вкусное мороженое есть там!>
    Хорошая идея! Там есть очень вкусное мороженое.
    You must be kidding me, it is the third time I tell you about "there is/are"
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    HAHA! Many thanks indeed for your helpful response! I included "Очень вкусное мороженое есть там" because I was trying to practice what you informed me of twice previously! "Там есть очень вкусное мороженое." naturally felt like the correct way to write it, but I thought "NO! Do it backwards!" I shall practice and master the structure in part V!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Smith View Post
    HAHA! Many thanks indeed for your helpful response! I included "Очень вкусное мороженое есть там" because I was trying to practice what you informed me of twice previously! "Там есть очень вкусное мороженое." naturally felt like the correct way to write it, but I thought "NO! Do it backwards!" I shall practice and master the structure in part V!
    But you didn't do it backwards.

    There is very tasty ice cream there.
    Там есть очень вкусное мороженое.

    Try these:
    There is a lamp on the table.
    There is a man in the garden.
    There are two tables in the room.
    There are many windows in the house.
    There is some milk in the glass.
    There are a lot of people in the office.

    Use "быть" for inanimate nouns and "находиться" for animate ones.
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    Sorry but I cannot reply now, I think Hoax corrected everything absolutely right. We're waiting for your next topic and are ready to help.
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    "там" confused me! I am not sure why.

    There is a lamp on the table.
    There is a man in the garden.
    There are two tables in the room.
    There are many windows in the house.
    There is some milk in the glass.
    There are a lot of people in the office.

    Спасибо за упражнения! Ниже моя попытка:
    Thank you for the exercises! Below is my attempt:

    На столе есть лампа.
    В саду есть мужчина.
    В комнате есть два столи.
    В дом(a/е?) есть много окна. (is дома indeclinable?)
    В стакане есть некоторое молоко.
    В бюро есть много людей.

    EDIT:

    В саду находится мужчина
    В бюро находятся много людей.

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    В комнате два столА.
    The only variant is "в доме".
    В стакане есть НЕМНОГО молока.

    Try this: How many children are there?
    There are three children in the room.
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    На столе есть лампа. OK
    В саду есть мужчина. In some context, it might work. Without context, it sounds a little bit strange, as if the man is permanently there.
    В комнате есть два столи. Should be два стола (note the stress: столА) - genitive singular with 2, 3, 4.
    В дом(a/е?) есть много окна. (is дома indeclinable?) 1) в доме (дома = at home, it is an adverb and is underclinable; дом = house, it is a noun: в доме = in the house) 2) много окон (genitive plural with quantifiers other than 1, 2, 3, 4).
    В стакане есть некоторое молоко. "Некоторое молоко" means "a certain (kind of) milk". Just say: В стакане есть молоко. or В стакане есть немного молока (= a little milk, a small amount of milk). You do not need to translate English "some" into Russian every time.
    В бюро есть много людей. In some context, it might work. Without context, it sounds a little bit strange, as if the people are permanently there.

    В саду находится мужчина. OK
    В бюро находятся много людей. OK Strange it may seem, but singular is also possible in this context, and it is even preferrable: В бюро находится много людей. The singular verb (находится) just denotes all the people being their as a single whole.
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    About the verbs in "there is" constructions:

    I would not be so categorical in terms of "быть" for inanimate and "находиться" for animate objects.
    Different options are possible, but each of them has its own semantic nuances.

    1. A verb can be omitted altogether:

    На столе лампа.
    В саду мужчина.
    Под столом кошка.
    etc.

    This construction is frequently used when you describe what you see right now.

    2. "находиться" can be used with ANY nouns, but it usually sounds more bookish and formal:

    На столе находится лампа.
    В саду находится мужчина.

    Although, I would not say "Под столом находится кошка" since it would be too formal for this context.

    3. "быть" (present tense: "есть") can be used with ANY nouns. But let's consider nuances:

    На столе есть лампа. - existence. It states WHAT exists on the table.

    В саду есть мужчина. - Generally, it sounds as if the man exists in the garden permanently.

    But in some context, it works fine. Imagine you are going to rob a house with your friends And one of your friends asks you:
    - Посмотри, там никого нет? (Look (check) if there is no one there).
    Then you CAN answer:
    - Тихо! Там есть какой-то мужик. (Silence! There is a man there). Here, "есть" is fine, it underlines presence of someone as opposed to absence.

    Note that "Там какой-то мужик" (without any verb) is possible too. However, the former version emphasizes presence (есть), and the latter emphasizes the man himself.

    Под столом есть кошка. - Theoretically possible, but sounds a bit unusual. However, in some context it might work, too.

    4. "лежать" - to lie (people or animals), to be in horizontal or in any random position (things):

    На столе лежит книга.
    На диване лежит мужчина.
    Под столом лежит кошка.

    5. "стоять" - to stand (people or animals on their feet). to be in vertical position or on a dedicated basement (things):

    На столе стоит лампа. (If on its base)
    На столе стоит стакан.
    На столе стоит книга. (If on its binding)
    У окна стоит человек.

    6. "сидеть" - to sit (mostly people or animals)

    В кресле сидит мужчина.
    Под столом сидит кошка.

    Note that 4), 5), 6) are extremely common in colloquial speech.

    7. "быть расположенным" - to be allocated. Inanimate objects only, very formal.

    На столе расположена лампа.
    В комнате расположен диван.
    В центре Земли расположено ядро.

    8. "иметься" (more like "to be available", "to be in availability") - less formal, but still formal. Mostly used with inanimate objects. Can be also used with animate objects, but in some very specific context.

    На столе имеется лампа.
    В комнате имеются стулья.

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    Боб Уайтман, no reason to give a lot of unnecessary information to a person learning foreign language (especially to a beginner), it will confuse that person much. We don't say that there are more then six cases for example, do we (actually even Russians usually don't know there are more, we are not tought about the rest at school)? We don't stun them with multidirectional verbs immidiatly. The information must be given in portions. It is imposible to learn everithing and practice at a time. You agree that it works well when we use "есть" for inanimate words and "находиться" for animate? As you could see from the examples above the sentences were natural when translated. When the learner digests it well, then he or she will get more information. When you give a lot of information at a time, a learner's first idea "what? so much? it is imposible!", they get depressed and lose courage.
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    Hoax: the input you have provided me with recently is invaluable.

    Боб Уайтман: Hoax is probably right that the majority of beginners won't greatly benefit from being bombarded with such a myriad of grammatical rules. However, I personally find your style and the above post to be very helpful. Your explanations suit my individual style of learning very well and out of every thread I create I find myself hoping that Боб Уайтман has provided another one of his fantastic and complete explanations!

    I have covered two complete Russian grammar books quite thoroughly and am reading intermediate/advanced level texts. However, due to a lack of practice in speaking, listening and writing, my ability to create correct Russian is still very limited. I have a solid foundation of passive knowledge that I now need to activate. Practicing writing and speaking and making (some daft) mistakes, I feel, is what is going to achieve this goal. Having immediately relevant grammatical issues corrected and explained to me reinforces and activates rules I am already familiar with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoax View Post
    Боб Уайтман, no reason to give a lot of unnecessary information to a person learning foreign language (especially to a beginner), it will confuse that person much.

    Hoax, actually I did not know Mr Smith was a beginner


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoax View Post
    The information must be given in portions. It is imposible to learn everithing and practice at a time.
    I totally agree. When it comes to methods of learning, it must be given in portions.
    I did not mean to encourage him to learn everything at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoax View Post
    When you give a lot of information at a time, a learner's first idea "what? so much? it is imposible!", they get depressed and lose courage.
    My point was just to illustrate the fact there are many other verbs which are possible. It is more like information exchange.
    I do not think it would be fair to tell the learner "There are only two verbs of existence. One is for inanimate objects, the other is for animate". In fact, there is no such a strict grammar rule. So, the learner does not have to believe in something which does not exist. That was my point. If he is a beginner, then we can explain it the following way:

    "There are many different verbs of existence with some semantic nuances. You do not need to memorize all of them at once. SOME of the most common verbs of existence are БЫТЬ and НАХОДИТЬСЯ. The latter is PREFERRABLE when applied to people, but it is fine to use it for inanimate objects as well".

    That would be fair at least.

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