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Thread: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

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    Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Is unstressed "e" pronounced like "и"?
    Is stressed "o" pronounced like "aw" in "law"(short "o" in English) or "o" in "low"(long "o" in English)? I seem to pronounce "o" in the middle of a word as "aw" in "law", but at the end of a word I seem to pronounce it as "o" in "low". Is this correct?

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    Is unstressed "e" pronounced like "и"?
    Is stressed "o" pronounced like "aw" in "law"(short "o" in English) or "o" in "low"(long "o" in English)? I seem to pronounce "o" in the middle of a word as "aw" in "law", but at the end of a word I seem to pronounce it as "o" in "low". Is this correct?
    Well, as non-professional linguist I can say only IMHO. IMHO stressed "o" is pronnounced like in "law" no matter if it is in the middle or in the end of a word. Unstressed "e" pronounced like "и" but IMHO when unstressed both "e" and "и" pronounced like English schwa vowel. Not much difference really.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    Is stressed "o" pronounced like "aw" in "law"(short "o" in English) or "o" in "low"(long "o" in English)? I seem to pronounce "o" in the middle of a word as "aw" in "law", but at the end of a word I seem to pronounce it as "o" in "low". Is this correct?
    No, it's totally incorrect. The unstressed Russian "o" is neither like in "law" nor like in "low".

    The stressed Russian "o" is pronounced like English "aw" in "saw", "law".
    The unstressed Russian "o" is roughly just like Russian "a", although it depends on its position with respect to the stressed vowel in the word. If the unstressed "o" is in the preceding (the very preceding) syllable, it's like "a". If it follows it, or if it precedes the preceding syllable, it's "schwa".

    Schwa = the "o" in "concern"
    Russian "a" = like the "a" in "ah!"
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Olya, you said it all well, but I think you missed something: no one asked about unstressed o.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by paulb
    Olya, you said it all well, but I think you missed something
    Yes, I did. Sorry, guys.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Unstressed e is like i. весна is /v'isná/
    There are five possible stressed vowels in Russian, notated /a e i o u/. In Standard Russian there are three possible unstressed vowels, /a i u/. Generally what is written a and o merge into /a/, and what is spelled е и merge into /i/.

    There is a tendency to keep the pronunciation /e/ at morpheme boundaries, sort of like pronouncing a word as it is spelled. Он читает доклад о своем доме. /čitájit/ or /čitájet/, /dóm'i/ or /dóm'e/ .
    When I listen to the news I sometimes think I am hearing the past tense plural as /l'e/ instead of /l'i/.

    Would like to hear native speakers' comments.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    What about сeводня? I when I hear that, I hear a long "o" as in "low" or "hello"

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Well, all textbooks say that at the end of "low" and "hello" there is a diphthong "ou" which is no in Russian at all. But IMHO what you hear is always more important than any textbook. Not sure that book really can help to get rid of accent. Just be sure that you hear native speaker.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    What about сeгодня?
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    Is unstressed "e" pronounced like "и"?
    Correct.

    Is stressed "o" pronounced like "aw" in "law"(short "o" in English) or "o" in "low"(long "o" in English)?
    Firstly, the vowel in “law” is NOT short. At least, if you speak more or less “classic” English. Secondly, the “o” in “low” is not ONE vowel, it’s a diphthong, and standard English does not have long diphthongs. All right. In Russian, we do NOT have long vowels, and we do NOT have diphthongs. The stressed “o” is pronounced, if loosely comparing to English, like “o” stressed in its normal variant.

    I seem to pronounce "o" in the middle of a word as "aw" in "law", but at the end of a word I seem to pronounce it as "o" in "low". Is this correct?
    Since you are not aware of phonetic processes, this observation can be accepted.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    Is unstressed "e" pronounced like "и"?
    Correct.

    Is stressed "o" pronounced like "aw" in "law"(short "o" in English) or "o" in "low"(long "o" in English)?
    Firstly, the vowel in “law” is NOT short. At least, if you speak more or less “classic” English. Secondly, the “o” in “low” is not ONE vowel, it’s a diphthong, and standard English does not have long diphthongs. All right. In Russian, we do NOT have long vowels, and we do NOT have diphthongs. The stressed “o” is pronounced, if loosely comparing to English, like “o” stressed in its normal variant.

    [quote:3rxfe12p]I seem to pronounce "o" in the middle of a word as "aw" in "law", but at the end of a word I seem to pronounce it as "o" in "low". Is this correct?
    Since you are not aware of phonetic processes, this observation can be accepted.[/quote:3rxfe12p]



    Why do people on this forum feel they need to give a lesson on something that doesn't have to do with the point of the post? I thank you for your help, but I don't need the English lesson.
    1. The point of my first post was to learn correct pronunciation.
    2. The vowel in law may not be short, but I never said it was. I said it was pronounced like a short o.
    3. Just like #2, I was saying low was pronounced like a long o. I never said anything about long or short dipthongs or it being one vowel.

    Please don't get off topic! It is annoying, frustrating, and doesn't help at all!

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Why are newbies on this forum so rude?
    Do they really think that people here must do something for them? Getting salary here, maybe?

    You see, whipback, the problem is that the sound in "low" is not one vowel for Russians. Roughly, it sounds like "оу" (aw+ooh) to us. That's why Rtyom began to talk about dipthongs.
    As for me, personally - I don't know how on earth you hear the "-ow" in "сегодня", but I would never say that the sound is anyhow similar to the "ow" in "low" as my Russian ear hears it. If you speak in Russian with all those "aw-ooh" instead of Russian o's, it'll turn out the typical strong English accent.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Russian /o/ is like the vowel in thought, caught. These are short vowels, but a little longer I think than the Russian correspondants.
    Compare caught and кот
    Are they pronounced the same except for length?

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    whipback whipped me back

    I’m sorry if it was annoying. But I don’t think what I pointed out could be called off-topic. Now you see how different people who speak different languages can hear the same sounds. I throwed in a small portion of theory to make things clearer and avoid confusion in the future.

    Anyway, if this may suit you, I won’t answer at your requests. No problem.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    Compare caught and кот
    Are they pronounced the same except for length?
    If we take two different pronunciations on this page http://www.wordreference.com/definition/caught, I'd say that in the American pronunciation there is too much touch of "a" (Russian "a")*. That's not at all like "кот" sounds. But the British pronunciation is very close, only the sound is a bit longer than in the Russian word.

    * The same here http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/caught. It sounds closer to Russian "кат" or something.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by chaika
    Russian /o/ is like the vowel in thought, caught. These are short vowels, but a little longer I think than the Russian correspondants.
    Compare caught and кот
    Are they pronounced the same except for length?
    For me the main difference in pronunciation of caught and кот is not in vowel but in t - т. English "t" I hear usually like something intermediate between "т" and "ч".
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    whipback whipped me back

    I’m sorry if it was annoying. But I don’t think what I pointed out could be called off-topic. Now you see how different people who speak different languages can hear the same sounds. I throwed in a small portion of theory to make things clearer and avoid confusion in the future.

    Anyway, if this may suit you, I won’t answer at your requests. No problem.
    It just seemed to me that you were trying to give me a whole bunch of unneeded information. I thank you for your help, I was just frustrated that I got information that I didn't need and didn't really answer my question. I wasn't trying to be rude I just wanted to make sure you knew that your post didn't get to the point of my post, but now I understand why you stated that information...

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Why are newbies on this forum so rude?
    Do they really think that people here must do something for them? Getting salary here, maybe?

    You see, whipback, the problem is that the sound in "low" is not one vowel for Russians. Roughly, it sounds like "оу" (aw+ooh) to us. That's why Rtyom began to talk about dipthongs.
    As for me, personally - I don't know how on earth you hear the "-ow" in "сегодня", but I would never say that the sound is anyhow similar to the "ow" in "low" as my Russian ear hears it. If you speak in Russian with all those "aw-ooh" instead of Russian o's, it'll turn out the typical strong English accent.
    I never said anyone had to help me. If someone doesn't want to help me then they don't have to...


    And if the o in low sounds like oy then how about the o in hello or the German o, if you know German? Here are some other long o sounding words that might help: mow, doe, blow, grow, know, glow, etc. Those are the o's(oh) I hear in сегодня. I also hear them in the words школа, плохо, and хорошо

    At 2:37 and 5:55 in this cartoon, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkfNiQOJcuo , I hear two words that sound, to me, like they use long o's.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Quote Originally Posted by whipback

    At 2:37 and 5:55 in this cartoon, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkfNiQOJcuo , I hear two words that sound, to me, like they use long o's.
    The penguin with the red beak speaks with German accent.

    By the way, it's very interesting thread. May be I will understand the difference between short and long o's if it continues.
    Налево пойдёшь - коня потеряешь, направо пойдёшь - сам голову сложишь.
    Прямой путь не предлагать!

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    Aa
    long = ей(the name of the letter)
    short = а

    Ee
    long = и(name of the letter)
    short = э

    Ii
    long = ай(name of the letter)
    short = ы(I believe the tongue placement on the Russian letter is different form the English i. I pronounce the English i with my tongue right behind my bottom teeth.)

    Oo
    long = from this forum it looks like there is not Russian equivalent. It sounds just like a German o(oh as in boat instead of aw as in bottle)(name of the letter)
    short = о

    Uu
    long = ю(name of the letter)
    short = а(unstressed)

    and sometimes...

    Yy
    long = wай - as the word why(name of the letter and that was the best way I could translate it)
    short = я(the a part of ya is pronounced like unstressed a)

    Ww
    long = double ю(name of the letter - the "double" is actually part of the word it is not meaning that w is pronounced as юю)
    short = wa(unstressed a, no Russian equivalent to w)

    This is the way Americans are taught the alphabet, but the letters are sometimes pronounced in a different ways than explained above ex. u sometimes is pronounced like Russian y, etc. Also this is translated from my understanding of the Cyrillic alphabet.

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    Re: Stressed "o" and unstressed "e"

    >long o sounding words that might help: mow, doe, blow, grow, know, glow, etc.
    These are not long /o/. They are a sequence of a vowel plus a semiconsonant, which is the /w/ sound. I am not up to date on my phonetic terminology, maybe it's a semivowel, like /j/ which is usually spelled "y".
    So you have phonemically (not the spelling!) /mow, dow, blow, grow, now, glow/. Our "long" vowel is really a diphthong, unlike the Russian stressed /o/, which is not. The word сегодня should sound like /s'ivódn'a/ where the /ó/ sounds like the BrE vowel in caught but is short because Russian does not have long vowels (generally). (apostrophe is the standard notation for palatalized consonant).

    Оля, спасибо за ссылки на звуки. В некоторых наших диалектах caught звучит как кат, но в моей речи ясно звук "aw" а не [a]. Мой диалект - midwest (вырос под Чикаго).

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